Confusion about FAT32 compression versus NTFS Compression

zachmi23 · 06-15-2009, 09:21 PM

I am very confused in reference to FAT32 and NTFS compression. All the resources I have found refer to the fact that FAT32 doesn't support compression, however this question below states the correct answer to the contrary...Can someone please help!!

I reference your practice test question:

10. You want to reduce the amount of space used on one of your FAT32 drive fast, so you decide to compress a folder named Odata with user data such as Word and Excel docs. When you want to enable compression on the folders properties sheet you notice compression is not available. How can you compress the files with the least amount of administrative effort and still be able to read the files?a. Convert the drive to NTFS using convert.exe /fs:ntfs to enable NTFS File Compression b. Convert the drive to NTFS using fs.exe /ntfs to enable NTFS File Compression c. Create a new Compressed Folder and drag all the files from the Odata folder to the Compressed Folder and delete the original Odata folder d. Use NTbackup.exe to create a file backup with maximum compression and delete the original Odata folder

dynamik · 06-15-2009, 09:25 PM

Compressed Folder = .zip file. That has nothing to do with the file system and is available on both NTFS and FAT.

Jordus · 06-15-2009, 11:04 PM

You can often use grammar to help you deduce answers.

Notice that "Compressed Folder" is capitalized. This means that it is likely a proper noun, and not a adjective and noun together.

If it were "compressed folder" it would be a folder with compression enabled.

a "Compressed Folder" is a zip file.

NozzaC · 06-17-2009, 12:14 PM

I'm not sure it is clear that they are referring to a zip file at all. If it really is referring to it then it's very badly worded. Looks to me just more like a red-herring wrong answer.

dynamik · 06-17-2009, 02:21 PM

They are indeed referring to a zip file. Right-click on your desktop and choose New > Compressed Folder. It makes a zip for you. I'm on Win7 now, and if I try to do that, it even says, "Compressed (zipped) Folder".

NozzaC · 06-17-2009, 07:51 PM

That's odd - I don't have that option on mine.

TravR1 · 06-17-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NozzaC

That's odd - I don't have that option on mine.

Windows XP Home?

I'm not sure if you can Compress in Home Edition or not.

NozzaC · 06-18-2009, 09:25 AM

It's XP Pro. Not sure what's happened to that option. I do remember it now you mention it. I see now I can Send To... a Compressed (Zipped) Folder.

Good job that Q didn't come up in the exam!

dynamik · 06-18-2009, 02:46 PM

Ah, forgot it was "Send To" in XP. I haven't been on it for quite awhile

fettu1293 · 11:40 PM

Windows XP Pro
right click on the desktop | New| Compressed (zipped) Folder
to create a new .zip file.

If that option isn't there it's more than likely because you've installed either WinZip or WinRAR, both of which will replace that option with their Software.

RobertKaucher · 06-21-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NozzaC

I'm not sure it is clear that they are referring to a zip file at all. If it really is referring to it then it's very badly worded. Looks to me just more like a red-herring wrong answer.

It is actually not a poorly worded question. The key here is understanding a two part problem statement: use compression (both compressed folders and NTFS compression use compression) to save disk space and use the least amount of administrative effort to achieve this goal. To get this correct you need to know what the difference between a "Compressed Folder" (the proper term for a native Windows Zip file) and NTFS Compression. You also need to understand that converting your file system to NTFS, which can only be done by an account with local administrator rights and could FUBAR your system, requires more administrative effort than creating a Compressed Folder, which even a user account with no administrative rights can do. The wording is very meticulous and is used to measure your skill as a technician. Do you listen to what the problem is or do you assume you understand the issue and plow forward with the wrong (and potentially damaging) solution based on a faulty assumption?
If you can train yourself to “get” these types of questions and recognize when they are trying to trick you in this way, I guarantee you can pull down scores on MCP exams in the high 800s with moderate study.

RobertKaucher · 06-21-2009, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravR1

Windows XP Home?

I'm not sure if you can Compress in Home Edition or not.

If you are talking about NTFS compression, it's available in Home Edition. It's a feature of NTFS, not the edition of Windows. Not a lot of people know but you can still use NTFS permissions in XP Home with CACLS (talk about FUBARing your system, just forget the /e!) or by going into Safe Mode where you can access the "Security" tab on the Properties Menu.

I have seen Malware that will use NTFS compresion on CPL files and Control Panel Applets in XP Home in an attempt to make them inaccessible.

gravyjoe · 04:43 AM

In reality, there's no compression known as "FAT32 Compression". The compression you are referring to is "Compressed Folders". This type of compression can be used on both FAT32 and NTFS file systems. This type of compression is used by creating a Compressed folder, and putting files (like Excel and Word documents) into that folder.

The NTFS Compression (only on NTFS, of course) is used by right-clicking a file, going to Properties, going to Advanced, and checking "Compress Contents to Save Disk Space"

The reasoning behind the answer is... the file system is currently using FAT32. Instead of having to convert the whole file system to NTFS, and using NTFS Compression, it'd be MUCH easier just to create a compressed folder and put the files in that folder.

Jordus · 06-21-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

If you are talking about NTFS compression, it's available in Home Edition. It's a feature of NTFS, not the edition of Windows. Not a lot of people know but you can still use NTFS permissions in XP Home with CACLS (talk about FUBARing your system, just forget the /e!) or by going into Safe Mode where you can access the "Security" tab on the Properties Menu.

Or just go into folder options and disable "Simple File Sharing"

TravR1 · 06-21-2009, 05:37 PM

[QUOTE=RobertKaucher;322609]If you are talking about NTFS compression, it's available in Home Edition. It's a feature of NTFS, not the edition of Windows. Not a lot of people know but you can still use NTFS permissions in XP Home with CACLS (talk about FUBARing your system, just forget the /e!) or by going into Safe Mode where you can access the "Security" tab on the Properties Menu.QUOTE]

Yeah, I wasn't sure, it was just a stab in the dark

RobertKaucher · 06-25-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordus

Or just go into folder options and disable "Simple File Sharing"

Nope, not in home edition. I quote from the following aticle "You cannot disable simple file sharing in Windows XP Home Edition."
How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a shared folder in Windows XP

Jordus · 06-26-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

Nope, not in home edition. I quote from the following aticle "You cannot disable simple file sharing in Windows XP Home Edition."
How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a shared folder in Windows XP

Seriously?

Yet another reason to hate the home editions.

skrpune · 06-26-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordus

Seriously?

Yet another reason to hate the home editions.

For the average home user, there is nothing wrong with a "home" edition of an OS. For us geeks though, it's quite unpleasant and is much like being hog-tied (unless you like that sorts of thing

).

dynamik · 06-26-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrpune

For us geeks though, it's quite unpleasant and is much like being hog-tied (unless you like that sorts of thing

).

Especially when it BSODs...

TravR1 · 07-06-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrpune

For the average home user, there is nothing wrong with a "home" edition of an OS. For us geeks though, it's quite unpleasant and is much like being hog-tied (unless you like that sorts of thing

).

LoL !

Yeah, my grandma has no need for an XP Pro edition. I think the Home edition is still too much for her.

gana722304 · 07-26-2009, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

Nope, not in home edition. I quote from the following aticle "You cannot disable simple file sharing in Windows XP Home Edition."
How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a shared folder in Windows XP

Note on this----- while it's true that you can't _disable_ simple file sharing in XP Home by going into Tools -> Folder Options -> View Tab (the box to clear simple file sharing is only in XP Pro, NOT in Xp Home)....

...you CAN set NTFS file/folder permissions using the file/folder Security tab in Safe Mode of XP Home.

Believe me, I've tried it.

But hey, do people really need to use that in XP Home?
Maybe they dont trust their own families...

gandalph · 07-27-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

It is actually not a poorly worded question. The key here is understanding a two part problem statement: use compression (both compressed folders and NTFS compression use compression) to save disk space and use the least amount of administrative effort to achieve this goal. To get this correct you need to know what the difference between a "Compressed Folder" (the proper term for a native Windows Zip file) and NTFS Compression. You also need to understand that converting your file system to NTFS, which can only be done by an account with local administrator rights and could FUBAR your system, requires more administrative effort than creating a Compressed Folder, which even a user account with no administrative rights can do. The wording is very meticulous and is used to measure your skill as a technician. Do you listen to what the problem is or do you assume you understand the issue and plow forward with the wrong (and potentially damaging) solution based on a faulty assumption?
If you can train yourself to “get” these types of questions and recognize when they are trying to trick you in this way, I guarantee you can pull down scores on MCP exams in the high 800s with moderate study.

This staement is very true for anyone that plans on taking MS exams there is definately an art in reading the questions and if you can master that then you are on your way to certification

RobertKaucher · 08-05-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gana722304

Note on this----- while it's true that you can't _disable_ simple file sharing in XP Home by going into Tools -> Folder Options -> View Tab (the box to clear simple file sharing is only in XP Pro, NOT in Xp Home)....

...you CAN set NTFS file/folder permissions using the file/folder Security tab in Safe Mode of XP Home.

Believe me, I've tried it.

But hey, do people really need to use that in XP Home?
Maybe they dont trust their own families...

I believe you... Read post #12 of this thread.