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  1. Junior Member timespace's Avatar
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    #1

    Default Apple certs? Useful?

    I've never owned a Mac so I'm not very familiar with them... is this a big problem for someone wanting to get into the IT field?
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  3. Senior Member xmalachi's Avatar
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    #2
    I can't say that I have ever had to work with a Mac at my job. I know that at a company I worked for previously they had a support desk for Macs. I think the team consisted of about 6-10 people. From what I have heard, the Mac certs won't open up many doors for you.
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  4. Still a noob earweed's Avatar
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    #3
    I've seen mac experience listed for help desk at the local college but no apple certs required.
    mmm apple certs, bet my breath would be really nice..lol
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  5. Audentis Fortuna Iuvat veritas_libertas's Avatar
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by earweed View Post
    I've seen mac experience listed for help desk at the local college but no apple certs required.
    mmm apple certs, bet my breath would be really nice..lol
    You would end up walking around with a glazed look while reciting Apple propaganda, and anytime someone said something disparaging about Apple you would say, "Not a Chance!"

    Dear Steve, Has Google Leapfrogged Apple?



    Cue the Apple vs Microsoft flame war... LOL JK
    Last edited by veritas_libertas; 05-25-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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    #5
    While Apple experience may help you out with getting a job at some places (not very many that I've seen), I have yet to see any job postings that require Apple certifications.
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    #6
    I think I've had an enquiry about one job in my life which would have required Apple Xserve experience (I'm a Mac user, so they looked at my CV and hoped that I had sysadmin experience with it I guess). I don't remember them mentioning any certs, although I suppose certs would have been a way of saying "Yep, I've got this, so I at least have some idea".

    Besides that though, I don't think you are going to get much use out of them unless you are running sysadmin in graphic design or audio editing places and similar places like that. I've never seen an Xserve in person, so I don't think there is that much call for it.

    Then again, I suppose it would set you out as a bit different from the crowd, and being one of the rare few with the qualifications means that if anything did ever come up, you'd almost be a shoe in for the role.
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  8. Carpe Noctem azjag's Avatar
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    #7
    I think having Mac OS support knowledge can only help you in the long run. Especially since it is a gui version of Unix. I read through a couple of chapters in the Mac OS X Support Essentials book. Mostly CLI stuff with some GUI support info. It helps to have exposure to more than one OS.

    Edit: Sooner or later I will really study for this test and obtain the cert, just for sake of having it. Maybe after the CISSP and CEH this year.
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    #8
    Macs are getting more popular, however still Windows is probably 90% of the market where there are jobs. Linux is getting more exposure also, so it is a good path to go.

    I've actually have been hired for at least two jobs because of my Mac experience in the past 25 years. I keep alternating between Mac required positions and Windows required positions. I've found having experience in both set me apart from the pack.

    I'm now doing mostly Linux. Which is getting back closer to what Mac is.
    I'm beginning to LOVE Linux.

    I'm looking at updating my Mac Essentials certification to Snow Leopard later this year, I believe I did Panther several years ago. I will probably not go any higher than that level due to expense. I'll update later, if Apple releases something that is a big change. I've found in the past I was able to read Peach pit training book a few times thru highlighting what I did not know, noteing special terms and I was able to study and pass within two weeks. I did buy a Mac to get some hands on experience. However, a lot of material in book was review for me, so not sure if it was just me or was it that easy for me.

    I think the knowledge regarding the Mac and Snow Leopard will be more valuable to me than getting the certification.

    I'm working toward security and Linux certifications where I want to specialize. I'd like to have a little Apple and a little Windows to complement the other certs.

    I already have Linux+, but was considering doing LPI-Level 1 as a next step. However, if you notice now, Linux+ will start using the LPI exams.

    Also, I've noticed if you do LPI, you can apply to get Linux+ and also Novell's CLA certification. Three for one deal.

    So, IMO a little exposure to more than just Windows is a good thing. Get some knowledge of Macintosh, Linux and Windows. If you get into security it can only help knowing some of each....
    Last edited by twodogs62; 06-28-2010 at 03:17 AM.
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  10. Command Line Ninja Chris:/*'s Avatar
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    #9
    I personally would place Apple Certifications as low as possible on the totem pole.

    If you want to gain knowledge of the systems then study toward the exams objectives, as for myself I doubt I would ever get the certs.

    To gauge industry desire for a certification I do job searches using the certification as the keyword. Very few jobs show up for Apple Certifications and it really has not grown over the past two years. In addition the jobs that want those certifications will take other certifications over the Apple ones if you do not have them. Most of the jobs that did show up were for Desktop Support Technicians at small universities.

    Most large universities use Mac in their Graphic Arts departments or their student labs. Most of the power systems are Unix (Solaris) or Linux (Red Hat) at those universities and those are the jobs that pay far better.

    It depends on what your goals are.
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  11. Senior Member Mike-Mike's Avatar
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    #10
    I regularly check the job listings in my area, even though I'm not looking for a job right now. But I find it fun to look and see what certifications they require or recommend, and the only job ad I have ever seen looking for Apple certs was for Best Buy's Geek Squad
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  12. Carpe Noctem azjag's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    I personally would place Apple Certifications as low as possible on the totem pole.
    Like other non Microsoft or Cisco certs, the apple cert is more of a specialty or niche area. I'm not perusing the cert to get a job solely working on Mac's. But as I stated earlier it is a Unix based OS and companies out there still need people who are versed in multiple disciplines. A straight out MS or Cisco engineer is a dime a dozen. The same job you applied for so did hundreds of other people, and it's left to the all knowing HR people to sort out the "best" candidates.

    Going off your idea of searching for the specific apple certs I to was less then impressed with what I saw.

    Apple Certified associate = 2 jobs.
    Apple Certified Support Professional = 3 jobs.
    Apple = 23
    OS X = 14

    However, I did notice something that you left out. Of all the jobs that had the apple or OS X requirements, some were looking for programming, iPhone development, Linux administration and Solaris and more than a few were with big name companies.

    Most were with IT Consulting Firms and Technical support agencies. GoDaddy had positions listed for Senior Admin requiring OS X. And my favorite, the tech support companies had positions for both MS and Mac. The Mac position paid $2-5hr more than the MS position. The GoDaddy position paid in the between $65-$80 and the consulting jobs started in the $60's.

    You can't base the market trends on what some HR person is writing in a job description on Monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Most of the power systems are Unix (Solaris) or Linux (Red Hat) at those universities and those are the jobs that pay far better.
    One thing I noticed with with these deployments, you will usually find there are 1-2 people, with the title of Senior engineer or in their mind "God", that built the system and have been maintaining it all along. They view you as somebody who is there to change what they worked long and hard to perfect. And they hate change. "Youth and Skill are no match for old age and treachery" <- I'd quote it if I knew where it came from.

    Now I realize that your intention with this post was to state your position on the usefulness of getting the cert. But tell me, how much has that CIW cert done for you? Mine has done nothing for me other than add some diversity to my certification portfolio, And I won't be renewing it either as it was a degree requirement.
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  13. Command Line Ninja Chris:/*'s Avatar
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    #12
    Now do not take a certification as an equation of knowledge, it is just proof of a subset of skills.
    Having an Apple Cert does not make you a Linux or UNIX admin no matter how much Steve Jobs slices it.
    Jobs that want real Linux Admins typically do not accept Apple experience as a sub. Typically if they want a certification it is RH, Novell, Solaris or so on.

    I do have a CIW certification and it was a quick easy knockout that I used to fill a requirement to work with a few states education departments’ requirements when improving their computer labs. Now you can snub your nose with such remarks but it really does not matter.

    When I searched for Apple Certification Jobs all I found were desktop techs. Now granted being versed in multiple disciplines was a point I brought up. I have personally have not seen any benefit in being Apple Certified in well-paying heterogeneous environments. Apple Certifications are a niche because the corporate world really is not vested in their products. This cannot be said for other OS and network certifications, if 95% of the world uses a product it is not really a niche product. The Apple certifications just do not carry the weight. Most senior Administrators or engineers are more impressed by RHCE or MCSE because the environment they work in is primarily composed of those systems.

    The Cost to benefit ratio is just not there. Apple Products which really are not used much in the corporate environment. The exception would be with the websites, arts and iPhone application development as you mentioned. You can also bet they would take the programmer with experience creating applications over someone who is Apple Certified for jobs involving the iPhone. That same time spent preparing for these certifications could be used for earning certifications that apply to more than a few jobs.


    Now you can get defensive about your choices but in a time, to revenue and job potential ratios the Apple Certifications are just not worth it. If a person loves working with Apple Products and that is there dream job they really should become Apple Certified.

    Now for a point of team work, you should not discount people that you view as old who may be able to teach you something. I work with some brilliant men who I show respect and they in turn do the same. Because of that my technical development has been a lightning fast pace because they are willing to share their knowledge. Do not always try to be the rebel in the IT department it usually leads to being outside the team.

    Burning Bridges eventually leads you to an island with nowhere to go!
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  14. Carpe Noctem azjag's Avatar
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Now do not take a certification as an equation of knowledge, it is just proof of a subset of skills.
    I made no such assumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Having an Apple Cert does not make you a Linux or UNIX admin no matter how much Steve Jobs slices it.
    Actually with the software being written on a Unix platform and the major tools being restricted to CLI you have to be smarter than the average tech to administer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Jobs that want real Linux Admins typically do not accept Apple experience as a sub. Typically if they want a certification it is RH, Novell, Solaris or so on.
    I agree, but lets reference you previous statement. Now do not take a certification as an equation of knowledge, it is just proof of a subset of skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    I do have a CIW certification and it was a quick easy knockout that I used to fill a requirement to work with a few states education departments’ requirements when improving their computer labs. Now you can snub your nose with such remarks but it really does not matter.
    Good for you, I believe there is a post around here that discusses the usefulness of this cert. We will have to add your situation as possibly the only time it has been required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    When I searched for Apple Certification Jobs all I found were desktop techs. Now granted being versed in multiple disciplines was a point I brought up. I have personally have not seen any benefit in being Apple Certified in well-paying heterogeneous environments. Apple Certifications are a niche because the corporate world really is not vested in their products. This cannot be said for other OS and network certifications, if 95% of the world uses a product it is not really a niche product. The Apple certifications just do not carry the weight. Most senior Administrators or engineers are more impressed by RHCE or MCSE because the environment they work in is primarily composed of those systems.
    I will give you that, and I believe I started my previous post with the statement that apple is a niche certification. But I don’t know if I would lump RHCE and MCSE in the same category. Especially since some of the jobs I found that require the MCSE cert, were for desktop support. With windows taking up the majority of the desktop market at around ~89% leaving Mac ~7% and Linux ~1.25%. Now servers are a different story. Windows has about 48% Linux is sitting at 40% and Unix is trailing with about 8%. Source is Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now something to remember with these numbers, this doesn’t take into account the fact that linux is free and can be downloaded and installed without registering it so actual numbers may never be known. Kind of a shot in the foot for linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    The Cost to benefit ratio is just not there. Apple Products which really are not used much in the corporate environment. The exception would be with the websites, arts and iPhone application development as you mentioned. You can also bet they would take the programmer with experience creating applications over someone who is Apple Certified for jobs involving the iPhone. That same time spent preparing for these certifications could be used for earning certifications that apply to more than a few jobs.
    You are making the assumption that companies will always higher the best and brightest applicant for the position. Not always true. It actually turns out to be the person who closely matches the requirements for the job who’s salary requirements meet what the company is willing to pay. Also, as a applicant trying to distinguish yourself from the other applicants, having exposure to many different applications and OS’s in the right environment can only help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Now you can get defensive about your choices but in a time, to revenue and job potential ratios the Apple Certifications are just not worth it. If a person loves working with Apple Products and that is there dream job they really should become Apple Certified.
    You’ll probably notice that I don’t have the apple certification. Yes I did write and do update the sticky on Apple Certifications. I see a value in having experience in multiple disciplines in the IT field. And as stated before, I would take the Apple Certifications for personal enrichment and maybe to advance my marketability on Onforce. I have other industry certifications that apply to my career and the direction I'm headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Now for a point of team work, you should not discount people that you view as old who may be able to teach you something. I work with some brilliant men who I show respect and they in turn do the same. Because of that my technical development has been a lightning fast pace because they are willing to share their knowledge. Do not always try to be the rebel in the IT department it usually leads to being outside the team.
    I never made any such comment about elder techs. It is always advisable to learn from those that have already made the mistakes. My statement was directed at deployments in large, campus like, environments that utilize those “power systems.” I have come across several occasions where change is feared and the person/s in charge of said systems do not allow new technology in. In some of those cases, once the person has left, the system usually undertakes a massive and expensive overhaul because it is so far out of date. But there are more than a few installations out there where change is slow or nonexistent. On another note, the same is true for persons holding the keys to the kingdom. Research Terry Childs for insight on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris:/* View Post
    Burning Bridges eventually leads you to an island with nowhere to go!
    Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they usually stink.

    Now we can agree to disagree on this subject or we can continue this discussion until the moderators get tired of it and put a stop to it. Your choice.
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  15. Command Line Ninja Chris:/*'s Avatar
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    #14
    Timespace that is usual result you will get for weighing certification value, differences of opinion. You have the information though. Cheers

    azjag in the future spend more time reading the advice being provided and take less time making it a personally. Cheers
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    #15
    Steve Jobs would want you two to hug it out instead of fighting......just sayin'..
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  17. nel
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    #16
    ive never seen anyone ask for the apple certs. Plus there are more valuable certs available on the market so i would concentrate on other areas. The only place i have seen macs in use was the newspaper industry but even then we had a company policy which enforced windows use only.

    personally, i would only study/read this cert for personal gain as i have recently moved to os x. i definately wouldnt expect career advancement.
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  18. Gaming Tech Expert Dakinggamer87's Avatar
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    #17
    I haven't worked at any jobs that required any Apple certifications. However, I think it can be very useful gaining new knowledge in learning a new OS such as Mac OS X if you want to learn more to expand and diversify yourself in your IT career. I worked with Mac OS X platform at an internship and it helped me get more jobs callbacks/offers since I knew Windows and Linux prior and then Mac OS X after I worked there.
    Last edited by Dakinggamer87; 01-17-2011 at 07:30 AM.
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  19. Certification Invigilator Forum Admin JDMurray's Avatar
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    #18
    My biggest drawback in being a computer tech or computer help desk person is my not knowing anything about Apple hardware or software. I've just never needed to in most everything I've done. But now I'm finding more Apple hardware involved in security issues, and there's me not knowing how to even turn the damn things on (the power switch is on the back of the monitor and recessed so you can't feel it, you say? ).

    I'd certainly consider looking at Apple's certs as a way to learn their products and how they operate. With the popularity of Apple products amongst consumers, the law enforcement community certainly has needed to do just that.
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  20. Senior Member Kasor's Avatar
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    #19
    I have Apple server and MBP at work now. I think I need to get to know more about apple product. I think this will be a good time to look into it. Specially if your higher managment have iPad and MacAir...
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    #20
    I think apple is a learn it if you need it tech, things may be a little different in the US but certainly in the UK I would advise against doing apple certs, not because its apple and nt becase hardly anyone uses Mac's in work, but because you could be doing something else that will help your career more.
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    #21
    I worked at a company that was all Apple, all the time. In some regards, it was a nightmare. In others, it was super easy. I could send things and have people simply drag and drop to install -- nice. Plus, the marketing folks and designers loved it, but overall, I'm not sure if certs are necessary in most cases. Here and there, it may set you apart and get you a job that no-one else can get.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mattctr View Post
    I worked at a company that was all Apple, all the time. In some regards, it was a nightmare. In others, it was super easy. I could send things and have people simply drag and drop to install -- nice. Plus, the marketing folks and designers loved it, but overall, I'm not sure if certs are necessary in most cases. Here and there, it may set you apart and get you a job that no-one else can get.
    Linux+ and Apple certifications sort of go hand in hand. Before people jump down my throat... Microsoft is the most used platform, hands down. What platform do most of us use? I'm sure it's microsoft. I'd like to go into L+ and Apple certifications for enrichment. Learning something for the hell of learning it. It may be proved something that separates you from other people - it may not. How can having experience with other platforms bad? Who knows, you may like it.

    Usefulness? High-income earning consumers love Apple Products. Likewise, schools (atleast my school district had 3 MAC labs - Each elementary, and 1 in highschool) Low income apple users tend to be the iPhone. None the less... Apple is still around and like it or not it comes on networks. Knowing something about products that come onto the networks can't be a bad thing.
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    #23

    Default Lot of certificates, but Apple one are ...

    Good day,

    This days there are so many certificates, and depends of job requirements some of them ask for Apple certificates.
    Even apple now have ACSP, MIB technician certificates.
    If you are Sys admin. or want to work in Apple Shop then you better have some apple cert. like MIB and ACSP.
    ACSP is better one it cost 200$ and you can learn by book or download iLearn: Advance ACSP on your iPhone/iPad.
    And I think best way to learn is to try play around with your Mac computer, explore the settings in OS X.
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    #24
    The certifications are very useful and are valid industry recognised accreditation. I'm pretty sure that a having Apple accreditation on your CV helps you to get job.
    Last edited by davefranco; 12-04-2015 at 10:15 AM.
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