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  1. Baroo? skrpune's Avatar
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    I studied the A+ and N+ in a correspondence course, I passed my A+ and N+ in Edinburgh. I then went to college and did the Cisco Networking Academy. I donít have any degree in IT Ďl never said l didí,
    I passed the 4 semesters i.e. ccna 1 -4 as you know you must pass a theory test and a practical test to pass. I passed the full CCNA in April .I see a lot of comments are about useless networkers. I can reassure you l can networkí thatís why I passed the test. My certificates are not 1 week brain dumps l did study very hard to pass them, with the Cisco semesterís I bought my own lab to practice with. So letís stop saying useless net workers and people with certificates that are useless.
    Just say unless certificates
    I have to wholeheartedly disagree with that last statement. Certificates aren't useless. They're a part of a bigger package/picture that shows what you have to offer. Being able to pass an exam is a snapshot in time of your abilities. Being able to perform on the job is another thing entirely. They are not mutually exclusive of each other, but one does not necessarily imply the other either.

    There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams. I am in no way trying to imply that you fall into either of those categories, and I'd venture to say no one else here is either. I am just trying to say that just because you're having a hard time with getting a job in a tough worldwide economy, it doesn't make your certs useless and it doesn't mean that employers are arseholes to ask for college degrees for entry level jobs.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure that the figures on # of students enrolled in IT in colleges/universities only includes those enrolled in degree programs and not those enrolled in training/certification programs. I'm not trying to knock Cisco academy or your training - you put in a lot of time and effort and practice and I'm sure you know your stuff, but a lot of employers nowadays are looking for degrees to go along with that knowledge and some experience to show that you have been able to apply that knowledge, and they will likely look upon your study/college time as 'training' versus 'education.' Again, not trying to knock it, just being honest about the way things are and my take on how employers tend to view these things.
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    #27

    Default CCNA Vs DISHWASHING

    Letís get to the point forget about CCNA, youíll be better off getting a job as a dishwasher the wages are better you donít need to study or pay for a test and of course you donít need a degree either.
    Also dishwashing is a full-time job not like agency work! Nowí how many dishes can l get into the sink 254?
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    #28
    How much will you be making as a dish washer in five years compared to what you could be making in IT?
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  5. nel
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    #29

    Default Re: CCNA Vs DISHWASHING

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    Letís get to the point forget about CCNA, youíll be better off getting a job as a dishwasher the wages are better you donít need to study or pay for a test and of course you donít need a degree either.
    Also dishwashing is a full-time job not like agency work! Nowí how many dishes can l get into the sink 254?
    Surely you cant be serious? cant be that bad surely?
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  6. Senior Member JavonR's Avatar
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    #30

    Default Re: CCNA Vs DISHWASHING

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    Letís get to the point forget about CCNA, youíll be better off getting a job as a dishwasher the wages are better you donít need to study or pay for a test and of course you donít need a degree either.
    Also dishwashing is a full-time job not like agency work! Nowí how many dishes can l get into the sink 254?
    This is how it is for almost every single field, including IT. You did not have to get a CCNA before you started job hunting as in most cases without experience, it counts for nothing.

    As you used the example of an electrician earlier I Googled "Electrician Forums" check out the first thread I found, read the second post:

    http://www.electriciantalk.com/showthread.php?t=3914

    8-10 Dollars an hour, in Florida. Sounds like dish washer wage to me.

    I am not trying to be rude, just trying to show you how it is. Yes, it is going to suck at first but eventually you will gain enough experience making crappy pay to get a better job which falls more in line with the CCNA material you have studied.
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  7. Junior Member
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    #31
    electrical 17th edition next stop
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  8. Netlurker cisco_trooper's Avatar
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    #32
    Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind when they talk about IT careers. Once you've put in your time and show that you can actually do the job, your salary skyrockets. A dishwasher may get a $0.25/hr raise every year or two. I don't know about everyone else, but my raises are multiple thousands of dollars every year right now. Granted, I expect that to slow down a little bit, but it is still fantastic compared to most other industries/occupations.

    I guess the point is that you can expect to start low, especially in this economy. But you can also expect to be rewarded once you've proven yourself.
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    #33
    I can't decide whether you are winding us up or you have just been under your mother's aprons, with people telling you how brilliant you are with computers, for too long.. I'll give you the benefit...

    You did the 4 semesters and got your CCNA... that is one hell of an achievement. Well done! no pi$$ take... really.. well done. Hard graft but you did it. A lot of MCSEs fail miserably all over the world when they try.

    However, your mistake was to belive that the CCNA would be the willy wonka magic ticket. You are are now coming to terms with the real world, in that there are quite a lot of us who have been doing this sh.t before you were even born. <shock horror you didn't invent IT>

    OK cheap shot ! Appologies!

    The fact of the matter in the UK right now is that normally there would be a standard employment cycle where people leave and people join. Contractors come and go.

    Now we are in a recession, all that changes and HR/personnel hold off from replacing vacant posts. Stafff decide to stay where they are and carry on paying the bills instead of trying to climb further by hopping to the next job... just in case. Whole reams of contractor jobs get 1 week notice from the bigger companies... (90 in one evening where I work and that was just my old department of 650+)<they cannot complain... they knew the risks all along whilst they were taking the 1.5 times the pay of the permy they were sitting next to for the last 2 years... they knew the risks... simple as! > ... I did when I spent 4 years as a contractor. Expansion/replacement type projects get cancelled by the finance directors in order to stock pile that money for the company just in case... <Bear in mind that plane fares to Iceland to get your savings out are not cheap when you are sending out your whole finance team and as many solicitors as it may take>

    Basically, it is a really a crap time to be trying to get a job in IT. Hell, not just IT... every profession is feeling the pinch in accordance with the above model. However, trying at the first rung might be a lot easier than going for that Network Manager role straight off the bat....

    One good tip for you, and any forum member in the uk, if you are looking in the local newspaper for IT jobs, think of it this way. If you were the IT manager/director, do you think you could get a good haul of potential candidates by just sticking a cheap advert in the local free paper ? With the ever more localness of free/local newspapers, would you be muppet enough to think that there is a wealth of IT pros living undiscovered right on your doorstep ?
    To be fair, there was a nice one that came up 5 minutes walk from where I live but that is a 1st in 15 years since leaving university with my shiny CS scroll in hand. I didn't get a look in for this job so there must have been some seriously qualified and experienced applicants from further affield the got selected for interview. This was a shocker for me as I am pretty much high up in my field with a degree and 15 years experience doing the job across a variety of roles... far more than they were actually wanting in the job ad.

    Forget fish or monster as you will just get innundated by crap with wannabe one man band recruitment types trying to sell you off and make 20% of your pay whilst sitting at home looking for the next muppet looking for a job.

    I only ever use www.jobserve.uk when looking for a job which is a site where all the serious recruitment companies post their opportunites to and this site provides a single point of reference for the IT pro/newbie looking for a new role. Look up the role you are interested in and phone up whatever recruitment company is posting the job ad.

    Seriously... local newspapers, fish/monster just show you are not putting enough effort into getting a job as you put in for your study for the CCNA and make it look like you are sitting back and waiting for it all to come to you. Try putting in seach strings like IT and Edinborough.


    Great posts by Nel, skrprune and malcybood in this thread.
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    #34

    Default CCNA Vs Learning Something Useful

    cisco_trooper wrote:

    "It's simple really; you can memorize a bunch of crap, or you can take the time to learn something" - yours truly


    cisco_trooper youíre highly articulate youíre comment is excellent I couldnít have put it better myself

    Yours Freddy
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by skrpune
    There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams.
    Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaminsky
    Quote Originally Posted by skrpune
    There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams.
    Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]
    prince 2 procedures and documentation.....UGH let's not go down that road / discussion! LOL

    "OK that will be 15 days project management you require for that switch upgrade mr customer because we follow the prince 2 methodology".....bleugh!

    p.s. no offence to any pm's just a recent experience i've had was a joke! I know it does work, in moderation though!
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  13. Netlurker cisco_trooper's Avatar
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    #37

    Default Re: The "IT skills shortage" in Scotland is a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    The number of computing students in universities and colleges has dropped almost 50% since 2001.
    This was reported in the media Jun 2008.
    Why has the number of students dropped? Maybe student in the know are voting by there feet and studying other topics. Is there really any need to study IT anymore since lots of graduates find themselves unemployable? Are IT degrees now as worthless as media studies?
    From my own personal experience having certificates like the CompTIA A+, N+ and the CCNA are as useful as used toilet paper when applying for a job, l know people with HND computer studies who cannot get anything. Maybe itís just Scotland but l studied IT for 4 years only to find it a total waste of time.
    Don't give up on it. You obviously have put some time and energy into this, which tells me that you enjoyed the subject matter and were willing to make sacrifices to put yourself in a position to be successful. Sorry about my earlier rant on college grads, believe me, that wasn't directed at you, I have no reason to direct something like that at you.

    The bottom line right now is that the economy sucks. It sucks bad. Not just in the US. Not just in China. Everywhere. That being said, it is a pretty global statement to say that you're just going to have to start at the bottom. It won't really even need to be very long. My first gig was 6 months or a year, and then my pay doubled, and at the time I didn't have anything but a couple MCPs. With a CCNA you SHOULD fare better, even moreso if everything you learned "stuck."

    It is an unfortunate time to break into IT. I remember having a hell of a time getting in, but once your in and you prove yourself, your golden. Don't give up..
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    #38

    Default Comments left by Trolls

    skrpune wrote:

    There are certainly many useless 'networkers' out there (and other IT-type folk), and those are the people who either brain dumped their way through exams and/or those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams. and

    Kaminsky wrote:

    Not true.. a lot of them are just useless ! [ dare I mention the prince 2 combination ? ]



    The Cisco network academy was a good experience, l thoroughly enjoyed the course and would recommend it to anyone who wishes to study but seeing these negative comments about dull net workers and those who promptly forgot everything they studied after they took their exams just reinforces my view about IT in general Ďis that itís full of moronic retarded trollsí who couldnít make an intelligent comment unless they where insulting people.
    Since passing the CCNA in April Iíve been unable to get any IT job.
    ĎThe truth is l forget even the basic commands, now l know that forgetting the commands immediately makes me useless and unemployable but then again why should l remember all that command line programming Cisco iso, should l go to bed dreaming about OSPF or maybe just EIGRP and lets not forget the plain old access-list Ďthen again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job Ďit would take me minutes to remember again

    Please donít comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make
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    #39
    cisco_trooper

    Thank you for youíre refreshing and interesting comment ITíS nice to read intelligent comments after some of the crap thatís been posted
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    #40

    Default Re: Comments left by Trolls

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    ... just reinforces my view about IT in general Ďis that itís full of moronic retarded trollsí who couldnít make an intelligent comment unless they where insulting people.

    Since passing the CCNA in April Iíve been unable to get any IT job.
    ĎThe truth is l forget even the basic commands, now l know that forgetting the commands immediately makes me useless and unemployable but then again why should l remember all that command line programming Cisco iso, should l go to bed dreaming about OSPF or maybe just EIGRP and lets not forget the plain old access-list Ďthen again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job Ďit would take me minutes to remember again

    Please donít comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make
    Have you considered a career in fried food ?
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    #41
    Kaminsky Wrot:

    Have you thought about a career in fried food ?

    Read his Forum Little happy dance

    2 * 3725 + aim nm-1a-3e
    3 * 3550 48
    1 * 3550 24
    2 * 2950 24

    All rescued from the skip [seriously.. no joke] by yours trully... ya gotta love muppet managers ! Out with the old .... In with the new .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


    Maybe you should try a career as a bin man duties include:Scavenging through commercial rubbish bins and skips
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  18. Cisco Moderator mikej412's Avatar
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    #42

    Default Re: Comments left by Trolls

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    then again l could easily study my CCNA booklet in case l ever got a job Ďit would take me minutes to remember again
    The only problem with that is that there probably will be CCNAs competing with you for the jobs who don't need an "open book" interview.

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    Please donít comment in my forum unless you have something articulate and intelligent to make
    I don't see it listed in your profile. Exactly where is your forum?
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  19. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #43
    You are not the only person that has been here to complain about how they can't find a job and their certifications are useless. Maybe if you put half the effort you put into complaining into searching for a job you wouldn't be in this situation. IMO certifications are there to verify your experience not substitute so having the cert with no experience is pretty much uselsess.

    You have to look at it from the employers side. Would you want to hire someone to work on your infrastructure who has never done it before? I know I wouldn't with all the money that depends on IT resources these days....


    Also remember everyone started somewhere. If we all did it so can you with a little effort and determination.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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  20. nel
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    #44
    OK, lets not get personal.

    Freddy > your just having a bad time at the moment. Dont let it get you down! seriously if you have to ask yourself > do i want to work in IT? asnwer it honestly and make sure you make the right choice. Weigh up your options and choose your path.

    If i were you start looking for a support role > desktop support / helpdesk work. Its a good start to get your foundations. then continue working in what interests you and keep going. keep moving up and taking the opportunities. The experiance on top of your certs and degree will be valuable in a few years to come and will assist you in landing your job you desire.

    Its going to take time mate but most things do in life.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    Kaminsky Wrot:

    Have you thought about a career in fried food ?

    Read his Forum Little happy dance

    2 * 3725 + aim nm-1a-3e
    3 * 3550 48
    1 * 3550 24
    2 * 2950 24

    All rescued from the skip [seriously.. no joke] by yours trully... ya gotta love muppet managers ! Out with the old .... In with the new .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


    Maybe you should try a career as a bin man duties include:Scavenging through commercial rubbish bins and skips
    Twit .. put that list through google or cisco then come back with the binman joke !


    You are new to a very popular forum full of all kinds of people both students and at at varying levels of in the job and doing! Initially you have had a bad reaction but you should put that down to a sign of the times and the initial petulance of your post. However, you have also had an upsurge of help and advice from mainly UK people , most with mamy years ahead of where you are starting out from right now. Seriously.. think about it... Do you really think you are the first or am I just being fished in ?

    We've all tried and tried to help you with advice and you have just got pi$$y. So .. go do it all on your own and tell the whole world just how bad IT is. It would be very easy for any of us on here to just dump on you with l33t sp33k ( you want that go to a lesser board ) but from your initial post, we can see your potential and we want to advise as we were all exactly where you are right now a long time ago.

    If you want to be a prima donna, stop initiating such juicy threads
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  22. Netlurker cisco_trooper's Avatar
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    #46

    Default Re: Comments left by Trolls

    Quote Originally Posted by mikej412
    I don't see it listed in your profile. Exactly where is your forum?

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    #47

    Default 1337 51*33x

    7/-/4l/lx j0(_) ph02 1l/l ph021l/l6 l/l3
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    #48

    Default The Golden Path

    Admittedly l did dream about the path of gold after completing my CCNA but alas l find only a dirt track and itís constantly raining. Thereís no signposts to guide me and Iíve been informed that the CCNA job market is in a loop which Iím afraid Iím not in so jobs are scarce for sheeple people like me. Iím happy you find yourselves so successful
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  25. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #49

    Default Re: The Golden Path

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy77777
    Admittedly l did dream about the path of gold after completing my CCNA but alas l find only a dirt track and itís constantly raining. Thereís no signposts to guide me and Iíve been informed that the CCNA job market is in a loop which Iím afraid Iím not in so jobs are scarce for sheeple people like me. Iím happy you find yourselves so successful
    I think that is your problem right there. There isn't a "CCNA job market." The CCNA is just a certification. There will be some people who care about certifications and others that do not. I'm sure you heard stories about getting your CCNA and making the big bucks, but it just doesn't work that way. Once you get into the field you will realize certifications are not as big a part of the field as you may think. They help a lot, but in the end experience is king and that only comes with time. No certification or degree can give you experience.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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  26. ...loading... gorebrush's Avatar
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    #50
    Fred, you're attitude, sucks.

    That is all.
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