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  1. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #1

    Default CCNP or CCVP what is the difference?

    Hey CCVP gurus!

    I am confused about what each can do. I mean to me going from CCNA to CCNP then CCVP would be the way to go. If you skip CCNP, I think you miss so much..just my opinion. But I know this CCNP who has set up a voip network(ours; 4 site voip network). We have MItel 3300 voip controllers and MItel voip phones and this CCNP setup Qos etc... for the Voip traffic no problem..I mean it wasnt that much of a learning curve for him he said...There is no way he needed 5 ccvp exams to do it. So what is the deal with 6 exams ccvp now and how can a CCNP do the work of a ccvp? Unless CCVP is for Enterprise networks??

    So my questions are. How can a CCNP do CCVP work?
    Should I do CCNP before CCVP?
    Thanks
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by itdaddy View Post
    Hey CCVP gurus!

    I am confused about what each can do. I mean to me going from CCNA to CCNP then CCVP would be the way to go. If you skip CCNP, I think you miss so much..just my opinion. But I know this CCNP who has set up a voip network(ours; 4 site voip network). We have MItel 3300 voip controllers and MItel voip phones and this CCNP setup Qos etc... for the Voip traffic no problem..I mean it wasnt that much of a learning curve for him he said...There is no way he needed 5 ccvp exams to do it. So what is the deal with 6 exams ccvp now and how can a CCNP do the work of a ccvp? Unless CCVP is for Enterprise networks??

    So my questions are. How can a CCNP do CCVP work?
    Should I do CCNP before CCVP?
    Thanks
    Certs are not needed for any of the jobs out there They are just used . We have hired consultants to do CCIE level work who have no certs whats so ever, but there company had a proven track record of doing amazing things.

    The certifications are just there to say you have knowledge of a area of Cisco networking. They do not prove that you know how to use that knowledge on the job.
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  4. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #3
    A certification proves you have the skill set for that certification. It doesn't mean you don't have any other skills.....
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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  5. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #4
    Hey Networker,
    you are a CCNP so you know how to converge networks data/voice and that seems to be the ticket..it amazes me how 6 exams for ccvp is so daunting? Seems to me a CCNP can do Voip work just get the experience.doesn't that piss off ccvpers?? all that work and a CCNPer can do the same??.I am sure ccvp helps but wow I was shocked when this CCNP guy did the voip setup. He even knew more than the CO..in some cases..I dont know why people encourage jump right to CCVP after CCNA..man do you miss out on a lot of understanding of the whole picture you know??
    The CCNP guy told me he set up a home lab of Voip and I thought wow...that is encouraging...funny how one gets brainwashed by certs telling you cant do the job unless you get your ccvp...thanks guys for you insight
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  6. sporadic member shednik's Avatar
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    #5
    again itdaddy I'm pretty sure even before networker had those 4 letters at the end of his name he still knew how to do that. The CCVP is there for people who want to specialize in voice, in no way do you need a VP to do a VP's job. I work on ASA's doing VPNs, Remote Access, Firewalling, etc that does not mean I need a CCSP to do my job well.
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  7. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #6
    very true...just wondered why that is all...cause in the ccnp courses there is a lot of Qos convergence skills and I just wondered.....I agree. I had an interview the other day and they ask if I had voip experience. I said yes but not on the command line..and all they wanted was a CCNA..hum well it is time to make my home lab rock! thanks dudes..
    it still amazes me 6 exams and a ccnp guy can do it(but again I am sure there is stuff in ccvp that is amazing) with experience..I guess.I am brainwashed by certs hahhha thanks dudes
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  8. Cisco Moderator mikej412's Avatar
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    #7
    Haven't a bunch of people installed VoIP solutions (Vonage) in their home without any networking experience or certifications?

    Plus a lot of them managed to get hooked up to the Internet without having a CCIE either.
    Last edited by mikej412; 06-18-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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  9. CCIE Bound kryolla's Avatar
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    #8
    try to get a CCNP who doesn't know voice to configure call manager express or call manager and try to setup voice mail, SMS or do digit manipulations. To me there is a big difference between voice and R&S, without knowing the network it will be hard to get voice to work so you are relying on someone else so I would do R&S first then voice but thats just me, Im use to doing things myself and I dont like to depend on others
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  10. Senior Member pitviper's Avatar
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by itdaddy View Post
    Seems to me a CCNP can do Voip work just get the experience.doesn't that piss off ccvpers?? all that work and a CCNPer can do the same??.I am sure ccvp helps but wow I was shocked when this CCNP guy did the voip setup. He even knew more than the CO..in some cases..I dont know why people encourage jump right to CCVP after CCNA..man do you miss out on a lot of understanding of the whole picture you know??
    The CCNP guy told me he set up a home lab of Voip and I thought wow...that is encouraging...funny how one gets brainwashed by certs telling you cant do the job unless you get your ccvp...thanks guys for you insight
    Do you actually read what you type? You may want to review the CCVP/CCNP curriculums before you start making random assumptions. I don’t even know where to begin with this one.
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  11. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #10
    pitviper,
    everyone else understood me..eventhough I write like a 2 year old..hee hee...I was just wondering why so much work. I have seen people who have CCNP and can do the Voip work...and I even said that I am sure CCVPs have greater knowledge...you dont have to give your input at all.

    I got my input from the rest of the crew who put up with my broken English but the rest of the guys understood me.....the guys are right; it is a shame that you dont have to have a CCVP to do CCVP level work; just like people who work on ASA and PIX all the time with out being a CCSP that is my point, and like I said, my friend is a CCNP and he built himself a home lab, a very nice Voip lab at home and had taken care of our Voip systems here at work not a problem and only a CCNP...I am sure your venture into CCVP isnt a complete waste of time....

    I could of gotten a job as a CCNA working Voip systems as long as I knew voip on the CLI but I dont yet. what do you think of that? sick huh!?
    Last edited by itdaddy; 06-19-2009 at 07:48 PM.
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  12. Senior Member pitviper's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by itdaddy View Post
    pitviper,
    everyone else understood me..eventhough I write like a 2 year old..hee hee...I was just wondering why so much work. I have seen people who have CCNP and can do the Voip work...and I even said that I am sure CCVPs have greater knowledge...you dont have to give your input at all.

    I got my input from the rest of the crew who put up with my broken English but the rest of the guys understood me.....the guys are right; it is a shame that you dont have to have a CCVP to do CCVP level work; just like people who work on ASA and PIX all the time with out being a CCSP that is my point, and like I said, my friend is a CCNP and he built himself a home lab, a very nice Voip lab at home and had taken care of our Voip systems here at work not a problem and only a CCNP...I am sure your venture into CCVP isnt a complete waste of time....

    I could of gotten a job as a CCNA working Voip systems as long as I knew voip on the CLI but I dont yet. what do you think of that? sick huh!?
    It’s not your English that I don’t get, it’s your logic!

    A good engineer is a good engineer regardless of what certifications he/she holds. I know an NP who can’t do CCNA level work, and someone with no certs who can solve IE+ level problems.

    You don’t “need” certifications to do anything – You just need the desire to understand the technology and a book or 2.

    There is more to the CCVP then “setting up a home lab” my friend.

    Saying that a CCNP knows “voip” from the small sample that you mentioned is like saying that I know how to speak the entire Chinese language because of the 2 words that I read on the little paper that was in my fortune cookie.
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  13. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #12
    pitviper


    agreed bud! he did make it pretty complex though.. I was just shaking the tree to see what others would say...I know there is so much more to voice and that a CCNP is no where near an expert in voice as a CCVP. I realized that guy who is a CCVP is more an expert. But I agree with what yuo are saying. I was shocked that these companies that I interviewed with wanted CCNAs/CCNPs with voice experience..I thought it was insulting to CCVPers that is all. Thanks for your comments and Sorry if I was moron about my logic...just trying to get some answers with crazy logic. Thanks my friend you are right 100 % nite dudes



    There is more to the CCVP then “setting up a home lab” my friend

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  14. Senior Member
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    #13
    Having both I can say that if I only had the knowledge required of one of the certs I would have no chance I mean 0 of the performing the role of the other cert. The key is to work with other good engineers that way you can share knowledge and help troubleshoot each others issues.
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  15. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #14
    Like everyne else said, certs are just paper, not having a cert in a specific area doesn't mean you can't perform tasks within that scope. It's kind of odd to even think of it that way.
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  16. Village Idiot dtlokee's Avatar
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    #15
    I will agree with adp123 there is a vast difference between the 2 certification tracks. A certification is a way to prove your competency in a technology based on a standard that is established by a vendor that is all it is. I would say there are very few jobs that will stay within the boundaries of a single certification. I have seen in many cases where an engineer is considered "qualified" based on the certifications they hold but the CCVP seems to be an exception right now due to the lower number of engineers with the certification. For this reason you will find people who are doing IPT functions but will have a CCNA/CCNP certification.

    One common statement that people make and I believe it to be an excuse rather than justification is that "I have the <insert certification here> knowledge I just haven't taken the tests" Well I ask "why not?" Why not prove what you know? The real answer usually is that they don't have all of the knowledge because let's face it, the exams are going to test people on topics that you use every day and others that you have never touched. I know plenty of people who make phones, users, DNs, and mailboxes every day but have never created a route pattern, route list or route group. That does not make them a CCVP. They may be very competent at their job but it does not make them certified.
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  17. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #16
    You makes some great points. Wow never looked at it that way.
    I can see your points. You are right.

    The engineer that is a CCNP that comes in here and sets up Qos-prioriy queues on Cisco routers and switches only, but he doesnt mess with our Mitel phone systems at all like the controllers etc.. We have other Mitel engineers that do that....another thing it is so funny when I read about voice job adds. They always mention Qos and isnt there way much more than Qos techniques for voice or not?
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  18. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dtlokee View Post
    I will agree with adp123 there is a vast difference between the 2 certification tracks. A certification is a way to prove your competency in a technology based on a standard that is established by a vendor that is all it is. I would say there are very few jobs that will stay within the boundaries of a single certification. I have seen in many cases where an engineer is considered "qualified" based on the certifications they hold but the CCVP seems to be an exception right now due to the lower number of engineers with the certification. For this reason you will find people who are doing IPT functions but will have a CCNA/CCNP certification.

    One common statement that people make and I believe it to be an excuse rather than justification is that "I have the <insert certification here> knowledge I just haven't taken the tests" Well I ask "why not?" Why not prove what you know? The real answer usually is that they don't have all of the knowledge because let's face it, the exams are going to test people on topics that you use every day and others that you have never touched. I know plenty of people who make phones, users, DNs, and mailboxes every day but have never created a route pattern, route list or route group. That does not make them a CCVP. They may be very competent at their job but it does not make them certified.
    A lot of valid points here. The process that certified candidates go through to get there is a variable. At the least the cert holder has passed the exam requirement and thi should validate that they at least know something about the technology and what it is capable of. That said the world of certification and the world of the field are different so experience is key to seeing where those worlds come together, or collide as the case may be. All field environments I have encountered the last 12 years have been mixed in terms of vendors. Now one could argue that a CCNP wouldn't help with Foundry serverirons much because it's a different vendor. I would argue that if you covered the CCNP material well you should know RSTP and can follow a foundry config. Certs provide syllabus structure that force you explore things that go way beyond what you might 'have' to do in the field, and that's a good thing.
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  19. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #18
    Certs provide syllabus structure that force you explore things that go way beyond what you might 'have' to do in the field, and that's a good thing.

    Turgon, very good point here. I can see that....makes sense to me..thanks for your guidance.....
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  20. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by itdaddy View Post
    Turgon, very good point here. I can see that....makes sense to me..thanks for your guidance.....
    No problem. Remember that the populous at TE is not IMHO indicative of the *majority* of IT pros. Many I have encountered in the field have jobs and little or no certs, and when obtaining them (often under sufference) they do what they have to do to get them quickly! As for homelabs, forget it. I have yet to work with any IT pro that has a lab at home.

    So we are an usual bunch but on the whole, more knowledgeble!
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  21. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Turgon View Post
    No problem. Remember that the populous at TE is not IMHO indicative of the *majority* of IT pros. Many I have encountered in the field have jobs and little or no certs, and when obtaining them (often under sufference) they do what they have to do to get them quickly! As for homelabs, forget it. I have yet to work with any IT pro that has a lab at home.

    So we are an usual bunch but on the whole, more knowledgeble!
    I agree, TE is not the norm. I haven't really met many certified people in the real world. At my current job there are a couple of us with certs, and my last job there was only me and one other guy. My boss is trying to get everyone to at least get their CCNA though.

    I do think my certifications have helped me, so I'm not going to stop getting them. I enjoy learning and I usually spend a lot more time learning things not related to certification, but still technology focused though.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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    #21
    The cycle of gain knowledge-> prove knowledge-> increase salary is one of the things that attracted me to this field. I think I need tangible goals like this or I would just slack.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by apd123 View Post
    The cycle of gain knowledge-> prove knowledge-> increase salary is one of the things that attracted me to this field. I think I need tangible goals like this or I would just slack.
    I think that's a major part of it for me as well.

    What about all the women? I was told there would be women too
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  24. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #23
    What about all the women? I was told there would be women too
    ahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahah ahah
    you kill me ahhaahhaahh!
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  25. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dynamik View Post
    I think that's a major part of it for me as well.

    What about all the women? I was told there would be women too

    The women are proportionate to the salary.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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  26. Senior Member itdaddy's Avatar
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    #25
    The women are proportionate to the salary.
    tru dat!
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