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  1. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by networker050184 View Post
    Ain't that the truth! One of the most misunderstood concepts of networking no matter what level of knowledge or certification. I've been studying QoS (on and off) since I finished my CCNP and I'm still confused by a lot of things. I just never feel 100% ready for that exam because I just can't seem to master every subject. Once I get something like shaping 100% I forget all the inter workings of WRED. Me and QoS are in a vicious cycle right now
    I <3 QoS.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanic View Post
    I thought Cisco made money from hardware and maintenance. They could not possibly be making nearly as much of their certifications, could they?
    True but if they werent concerned with making money off of there certs then they all would be free (CCIE included, along with all the books, and salad and breadsticks you want).

    Certifications are another way for them to get money imo.
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  4. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by knwminus View Post
    True but if they werent concerned with making money off of there certs then they all would be free (CCIE included, along with all the books, and salad and breadsticks you want).

    Certifications are another way for them to get money imo.
    You're nuts. You think the books, training, testing, etc, etc is free for them?!?
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  5. Cisco Moderator mikej412's Avatar
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by knwminus View Post
    True but if they werent concerned with making money off of there certs then they all would be free (CCIE included, along with all the books, and salad and breadsticks you want).
    Not sure how you get from covering the cost of the proctor salaries, the hardware racks, the space, power, air conditioning, test creation and beta testing (for the CCIE), and the rest for the stuff including marketing & management wonks for the "normal certs."

    Do you work for free? Do you have a spare 40 hours a week, PCs, internet connection, electricity, air conditioning, staff, and security to run a "free Vue testing site" at your home?

    Right now you're pretty much FREE to not bother with any certifications if you don't think they have any value to your chosen career.
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mikej412 View Post
    Not sure how you get from covering the cost of the proctor salaries, the hardware racks, the space, power, air conditioning, test creation and beta testing (for the CCIE), and the rest for the stuff including marketing & management wonks for the "normal certs."

    Do you work for free? Do you have a spare 40 hours a week, PCs, internet connection, electricity, air conditioning, staff, and security to run a "free Vue testing site" at your home?

    Right now you're pretty much FREE to not bother with any certifications if you don't think they have any value to your chosen career.

    You guys are missing my point. I do think that cisco certs are worth the time and dedication that people put them and I think cisco certs are worth the actual cost of the exams. I have no issue with the cost or anything of the sort. What I do think is that they werent concerned with making any money off of their certs they could do it all pro bono, IF THEY WANTED TO.

    Ultimately I think that they have enough capital to cover the cost IMO. That is all Im saying. I have no beef with cisco or with there certifications. Hell I dont even have mine yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColbyNA View Post
    You're nuts. You think the books, training, testing, etc, etc is free for them?!?
    No and this is exactly my point. They have to be concerned with making money from these certs in the short term and in the long term. Because it is not pro bono.
    Last edited by Bl8ckr0uter; 10-08-2009 at 07:23 PM.
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    #31
    No offense, but I really don't think you're aware of how much is involved with running programs of that magnitude. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually losing money on the whole ordeal. Like I said, the real benefit to them is having people that can support their equipment. Who cares if Juniper has better equipment for less money if all you have is people like Aldur supporting them?
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  8. Senior Member ConstantlyLearning's Avatar
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    #32
    So, let's say you have passed BSCI, ONT & ISCW but havn't passed BCMSN by June 30th 2010, you have to pass the TSHOOT and BCMSN exams to become CCNP?
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  9. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by knwminus View Post
    You guys are missing my point. I do think that cisco certs are worth the time and dedication that people put them and I think cisco certs are worth the actual cost of the exams. I have no issue with the cost or anything of the sort. What I do think is that they werent concerned with making any money off of their certs they could do it all pro bono, IF THEY WANTED TO.

    Ultimately I think that they have enough capital to cover the cost IMO. That is all Im saying. I have no beef with cisco or with there certifications. Hell I dont even have mine yet.



    No and this is exactly my point. They have to be concerned with making money from these certs in the short term and in the long term. Because it is not pro bono.
    So not only should they offer cert tests, training, labs, etc for free, but they should also eat the cost to produce all this? Seriously, are you high?

    Making their money back hardly means they're doing it solely to make money. I'm sure they make some money off the certs and everything, but I doubt it's any crazy amount, especially considering their main source of revenue.
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbyNA View Post
    So not only should they offer cert tests, training, labs, etc for free, but they should also eat the cost to produce all this? Seriously, are you high?

    Making their money back hardly means they're doing it solely to make money. I'm sure they make some money off the certs and everything, but I doubt it's any crazy amount, especially considering their main source of revenue.
    no unfortunately im not high.

    If cisco's certification plan was pro bono then they could give everything away for free . Since they are not then they do have to worry about cost and making money on the short term (the cost of the test) and the long term (more cisco certified techs= more ability for their products to get support= more companies willing to buy from them = more money).

    Like I said in my previous post, I have no issue with this. Certifications are a business and like any business they want to see something come back from it.
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  11. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #35
    I must be missing something here. You're saying that if everything was "pro bono" they wouldn't have to worry about cost? What cost do you mean? They would still have all the expenses associated with certifications, but they wouldn't have a revenue stream to cover them. How does this equal no worrying about cost?
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbyNA View Post
    I must be missing something here. You're saying that if everything was "pro bono" they wouldn't have to worry about cost? What cost do you mean? They would still have all the expenses associated with certifications, but they wouldn't have a revenue stream to cover them. How does this equal no worrying about cost?

    This all started with the changes being made to the ccnp. My opinion on the matter is that they wanted to seperate job functions based on cert. The ccnp is almost a jack of all trades certs and studying for it teachs you alot of different things. I think they are trying to divide this out to help them obtain more funds overall out of certifications kind of like the MCSE to MCITP:SA to EA, you know what I mean? (BTW I know there was more to the move from MCSE to MCITP than just that but what I am trying to stress here is segmentation by job role).

    Now I know they want money for there certs but if you have one cert that has so much in it, it might make people not want to do the other certs (if this makes sense). So IMO they are going to "dumb down" the CCNP so they can push more of the other certs up (if this makes sense)? IMO what they are doing is just like what MS did.
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  13. Lost in the box...
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    #37
    Well, I look forward to seeing what the objectives and blueprints look like for the new tests. For now though, I am just going to focus on knocking out my last two remaining (ISCW and ONT) before the July date. Hopefully everything covered throughout the current exam sets is still covered in the new 3. Troubleshooting should be fun though...
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jason_lunde View Post
    Well, I look forward to seeing what the objectives and blueprints look like for the new tests. For now though, I am just going to focus on knocking out my last two remaining (ISCW and ONT) before the July date. Hopefully everything covered throughout the current exam sets is still covered in the new 3. Troubleshooting should be fun though...
    For me it puts me in an odd situation since I already have the CBT nuggets for the old CCNP and I planned to start studying for it at the end of the month. Now I think I will just do the first 2 and then buy something for the troubleshooting exam.
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    #39
    So if I have already passed BCMSN and BSCI... my options are either take the ONT and ISCW before dec 2010... or pass the new TSHOOT exam and my CCNP is complete correct?

    As long as you have already passed the BCMSN and BSCI... I will not have to take the new ROUTE and SWITCH exams? Correct???? My brain is shot enough as it is I just took a 2 month break from cisco and got my MCSE 2003 security specialisation even though I already have the messaging.
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by hollow666 View Post
    So if I have already passed BCMSN and BSCI... my options are either take the ONT and ISCW before dec 2010... or pass the new TSHOOT exam and my CCNP is complete correct?

    As long as you have already passed the BCMSN and BSCI... I will not have to take the new ROUTE and SWITCH exams? Correct???? My brain is shot enough as it is I just took a 2 month break from cisco and got my MCSE 2003 security specialisation even though I already have the messaging.
    The way I read it the 2010 extension is only for net cad folks, so I think everyone else has until june.
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  17. Lost in the box...
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by knwminus View Post
    For me it puts me in an odd situation since I already have the CBT nuggets for the old CCNP and I planned to start studying for it at the end of the month. Now I think I will just do the first 2 and then buy something for the troubleshooting exam.
    I almost bet all of the information in the CBT nugget videos will still be relevant for the new exam(s).
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    #42
    wow...15months, My wife is really going to hate me now.
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  19. Certified Beer Judge Cyanic's Avatar
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyLearning View Post
    So, let's say you have passed BSCI, ONT & ISCW but havn't passed BCMSN by June 30th 2010, you have to pass the TSHOOT and BCMSN exams to become CCNP?
    From what I understand by reading the PDF, yes. It sounds like the ONT and ISCW expire as being valid in June. Meaning if you do not have your CCNP by then, they become worthless toward the CCNP.

    This is why my strategy has changed. I have passed the BCMSN. I would need tho finish BSCI, ONT and ISCW before the deadline in June. This leaves me with about 3 months for each exam and no wiggle room. If for instance I need 5 months for the BSCI, well, I get screwed. So I plan on just focusing on the BSCI and after I pass it, I will study ONT and ISCW for good measure until TSHOOT is avaialable, and then study and pass that to obtain my CCNP.

    This of course is only vailid if the information in that PDF is valid. We will know for sure when Cisco releases the information offically.
    Last edited by Cyanic; 10-09-2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Grammer
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    #44
    I'm actually kind of curious as to whether or not they'll be retiring BSCI and BCMSN, as that has ramifications on the CCDP and CCIP as well.
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    #45
    Let me see if I understand this correctly.

    If i pass BSCI and BCMSN through 2010, will I just have to pass the Troubleshoot exam after that to get my CCNP sertification?

    And since it seems ISCW, which I'm mostly done reading now, is not valid after june, maybe i could use everything I've read there on CCNA:Security exam instead, so nothing goes to waste?
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    #46
    If you've already passed BSCI and BCMSN, and you're ready to take ISCW, just go take it. ONT is an easy exam and should not take you 9+ months to study for and pass.

    If you haven't passed any of the professional level exams for the current CCNP, then going for the CCNA:Security first may be a smart move
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  23. Senior Member luke_bibby's Avatar
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken_GA View Post
    If you haven't passed any of the professional level exams for the current CCNP, then going for the CCNA:Security first may be a smart move
    Don't say that I was only about a month off taking the BSCI!
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  24. Senior Member ColbyG's Avatar
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken_GA View Post
    I'm actually kind of curious as to whether or not they'll be retiring BSCI and BCMSN, as that has ramifications on the CCDP and CCIP as well.
    I assume ROUTE and SWITCH will take their places.
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by luke_bibby View Post
    Don't say that I was only about a month off taking the BSCI!
    Well BSCI and BCMSN is kind of a no-brainer, they'll translate, so take them anyway. In the previous case, he was preparing for one of the exams that is, essentially, going away. So preparing for and passing it may not be the best tactical move for him.
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  26. Senior Member billscott92787's Avatar
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    #50
    So if you pass the BCMSN and BSCI, they will be valid, toward the TSHOOT, if you haven't taken the ONT and ICSW yet? Would you then just have to do the TSHOOT to get your CCNP? Does this mean that you shouldn't take the ONT and ICSW if you are just preparing to start studying and testing toward your CCNP? Would it be best to try to do the first two then wait until the exam changes for the 3rd test?
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