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  1. Senior Member lucky0977's Avatar
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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ivx502 View Post
    I have never taken a certification course offered by the DoD, so I cannot say for certain if they hand out the materials you speak of.
    I'm not going to paint a broad brush and state that it occurs everywhere in the DOD. My experience came from when I was on vacation and they decided to have a week long bootcamp for the CASP. I wasn't able to attend so they paid for my books and online CBT classes that I spent 6 months studying for. When I actually came around to taking the test, I thought I failed and did poorly only to find out that I passed but didn't know my actual score. I went back to work and asked my boss how so many people were able to pass the test with only a 5 day class. He showed me the study guide the instructor had them take home at the end of the day and to my amazement, they were the exact same questions on my exam. This is the AF-DOD and I complained to my boss but he just told me "Hey, people gotta feed their families".

    In the end as the others have said, the ones who actually studied will eventually move up the totem pole or these mindless f%cks will learn how to tap dance around when questioned. Till then, just realize you're gonna have to do your job and embarrass these clowns when an actual issue arises.
    Last edited by lucky0977; 12-27-2016 at 08:20 PM.
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  3. Member evarney's Avatar
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    #52
    I've been reading this and somewhat just lurking since I posted. I gather a lot of you people believe DoD or other federal employees are the worst.

    In either case; my resentment is more from the fact that I have met people who have certs in stuff like JNCIA and BCNE and I know they've never even logged into that **** before. It's like the little 12 year old in India with the CCNP. He hasn't been alive long enough to realistically have the skills.

    it's just BS...
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  4. Not IT n00b dave330i's Avatar
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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by evarney View Post
    I've been reading this and somewhat just lurking since I posted. I gather a lot of you people believe DoD or other federal employees are the worst.

    In either case; my resentment is more from the fact that I have met people who have certs in stuff like JNCIA and BCNE and I know they've never even logged into that **** before. It's like the little 12 year old in India with the CCNP. He hasn't been alive long enough to realistically have the skills.

    it's just BS...
    1. Many cert exams aren't that hard.

    2. There are a lot of smart 12 year olds in the world.

    I don't care how you got your cert. If you can't answer my questions, you're not getting hired by me.
    Last edited by dave330i; 12-29-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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  5. Member evarney's Avatar
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    #54
    monkey see monkey do.

    But monkey doesn't always understand.

    In either case; I am wanting to get into a field that is less based on certification. I figure coding would be an example of that. You can't fake writing code as easily as you can fake getting a cert.

    I agree interviews need to be challenging. Maybe even hands on. I think a hands on practical test would prove more than a verbal quiz laced with network trivia questions.

    Interviewer: "ummm ummm what port is web???"
    Interviewee: UHHH its 80 LOL,
    Interviewer: but ALSO i might be 443 LOLOLOLOL

    It doesn't mean you know how to configure a firewall. If I was hiring someone, I'd build a lab network, show them briefly that it works, have someone break it, clear da logs, and then have the potential employee troubleshoot it. If they show any kind of intelligence, then hire.
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    #55
    I wouldn't bet on the coding world being much different. There are tons of people in that world that borrow/beg/steal/modify other people's work.

    The truth is, there is very little original thought in the IT world. There are few "engineers" that have ever built a new IT system or network from the ground up. Very, very few have ever touched everything on a network.

    To be fair, most of the time there is zero ROI on reinventing the wheel.

    In the end success often has little to do with what one knows and has more to do with what one can learn. How quickly can one learn it?

    How well does one get along with coworkers? How well can you stand the guy next to you at 3am in the datacenter when the SHTF? Can said coworker take a joke?

    In short OP, suck it up buttercup and enjoy the experience.
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  7. Member evarney's Avatar
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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rcsoar4fun View Post

    How well does one get along with coworkers? How well can you stand the guy next to you at 3am in the datacenter when the SHTF? Can said coworker take a joke?

    In short OP, suck it up buttercup and enjoy the experience.
    My sense of humor is fully functional and I was the most approachable guy in da data center. Anyway, your customer base isn't even human. Hippie.
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  8. Senior Member si20's Avatar
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    #57
    I think we've now moved onto a slightly different, albeit just as relevant theme: people lying about their skills.

    I consider myself highly trustworthy and an honest person. That's easily said, but I am. I am not good with Cisco/Juniper stuff - i'm not a network guy. Sure, I could take some considerable time and learn it, but i'd never go to an interview and preach that I know something I don't.

    Let me tell you a quick story. A girl I went to university with was terrible at IT - fair play, she wanted to improve, but she didn't know what a hard drive was for; she didn't even know that's what data is stored on. Anyway, she liedbig time on her Linkedin page and said she could program in C# and went to a first-line support role and was started on 17k! (£) Ok, not big money, but the fact i'm unemployed, when i've self-funded and spent all of my own time studying exams makes me a little bitter. She ultimately got "told to leave" because they found her out and knew she was a fraud... make of that what you will.
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  9. Senior Member Moldygr33nb3an's Avatar
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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky0977 View Post
    Ya gotta wonder, with so many IT jobs in DOD, why are there so many contractors doing the job the DOD should be doing? Makes you wonder who is better trained or educated.
    Because it's cheaper to pay a contracting company for minimally qualified personnel, than pay DOD employees pay + full benefits and retirement for life.
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  10. Senior Member
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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by si20 View Post
    I think we've now moved onto a slightly different, albeit just as relevant theme: people lying about their skills.

    I consider myself highly trustworthy and an honest person. That's easily said, but I am. I am not good with Cisco/Juniper stuff - i'm not a network guy. Sure, I could take some considerable time and learn it, but i'd never go to an interview and preach that I know something I don't.

    Let me tell you a quick story. A girl I went to university with was terrible at IT - fair play, she wanted to improve, but she didn't know what a hard drive was for; she didn't even know that's what data is stored on. Anyway, she liedbig time on her Linkedin page and said she could program in C# and went to a first-line support role and was started on 17k! (£) Ok, not big money, but the fact i'm unemployed, when i've self-funded and spent all of my own time studying exams makes me a little bitter. She ultimately got "told to leave" because they found her out and knew she was a fraud... make of that what you will.
    Takes me back to an article I read while I worked at RadioShack: RadioShack Chief Resigns After Lying - The New York Times

    It eventually caught up with him, but he was our leader at RadioShack for HOW LONG? Unfortunately there are a lot more of them out there that haven't been caught yet. Until then, they're probably raking in the dough by faking it until they make it. :-/
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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Moldygr33nb3an View Post
    Because it's cheaper to pay a contracting company for minimally qualified personnel, than pay DOD employees pay + full benefits and retirement for life.

    There hasn't been retirement for DoD civilians in quite a long time.
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  12. Senior Member Moldygr33nb3an's Avatar
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    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by rcsoar4fun View Post
    There hasn't been retirement for DoD civilians in quite a long time.
    What? 2 years ago they purged 30+ year civilians with huge retirement bonuses. DOD Civilians retire all the time after 30 years of service. We had a sys admin retire after 30+ years and then come back as a contractor.

    Not sure what you mean.
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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Moldygr33nb3an View Post
    What? 2 years ago they purged 30+ year civilians with huge retirement bonuses. DOD Civilians retire all the time after 30 years of service. We had a sys admin retire after 30+ years and then come back as a contractor.

    Not sure what you mean.
    Folks with 30 years are under the old FERS system and have "retirement" benefits. People hired in the last 15 years basically just have a 401K.
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  14. /threadkiller ande0255's Avatar
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    #63
    Amen to the OP of this, I know someone who is exactly the same, and I mean EXACTLY. I hate that smug piece of ****.
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  15. Senior Member lucky0977's Avatar
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    #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ande0255 View Post
    Amen to the OP of this, I know someone who is exactly the same, and I mean EXACTLY. I hate that smug piece of ****.
    Yes we all have that fellow co-worker. The good thing is they can only go so far. They can't dump an ISACA or ISC2 exam (at least I don't think so). I am also reading up on some blogs that Microsoft and Cisco have started suing websites that host their test material online. It's not a total solution, but at least it's a start.

    These vendors that sell dumps online are getting their material from one of the testing sites. I wonder how hard it would be for Pearson Vue or Prometric to secretly perform audits on their own employees?
    Last edited by lucky0977; 01-04-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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    #65
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky0977 View Post
    These vendors that sell dumps online are getting their material from one of the testing sites. I wonder how hard it would be for Pearson Vue or Prometric to secretly perform audits on their own employees?
    I don't think the testing sites are employees of Pearson Vue. I think the testing sites get paid by Pearson Vue to proctor the exams which is included in the price of your voucher.

    It seems like it would be pretty easy to catch the testing centers by having control questions in the exam that only appear in a test proctored by that test center. If that question later shows up word for word on a dump site then you know it most likely the test center that compromised the test or someone with a photographic memory just happened to test at that test center.
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  17. Senior Member devilbones's Avatar
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    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by rcsoar4fun View Post
    Folks with 30 years are under the old FERS system and have "retirement" benefits. People hired in the last 15 years basically just have a 401K.
    Federal employees get TSP (401k), BB and SS. Not sure what they retirement benefits they are missing.
    https://www.opm.gov/retirement-servi...s-information/
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  18. /threadkiller ande0255's Avatar
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    #67
    I've seen posted several times in different forums from techexams and here that brain dumps are actually used in countries as legitimate study materials in schools, and I believe these countries also host test centers for Cisco curriculum and I am sure many more.

    I wonder if testing centers have access to the answers database though for the pool of questions, or if a secure connection is made to a Cisco DB to score the exams, and such for other vendors.

    And here is a feel good story to my fellow cert dumper haters here:


    The person I had mentioned was able to pull it off because he had Cisco TAC (support) engineers on chat, and he worked remotely doing VOIP job duties, so he would be able to regurgitate high level technical answers on tickets that he was given by a Cisco support person over Jabber and claimed that it was all him.

    He took a promotion which will have him going on site to doing deployments in front of the customer instead of remote, and he is sweating bullets because he is about to get found out for the fraud he is when he can't perform these skills he claims he has during a deployment which is really going to anger some customers a LOT.

    So a hopefully a sad ending to a cert dumpers career with my company, good riddance
    Last edited by ande0255; 01-09-2017 at 03:06 AM.
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas_ View Post
    I don't think the testing sites are employees of Pearson Vue. I think the testing sites get paid by Pearson Vue to proctor the exams which is included in the price of your voucher.

    It seems like it would be pretty easy to catch the testing centers by having control questions in the exam that only appear in a test proctored by that test center. If that question later shows up word for word on a dump site then you know it most likely the test center that compromised the test or someone with a photographic memory just happened to test at that test center.
    So far, the test centres I've used which are actually run by Pearson (ie. are owned and operated by Pearson) have all seemed well-run, and rigorous about verifiying candidate identity, checking people's pockets for notes, etc.

    On the other hand, some of the non-Pearson college-above-a-chip-shop test centres I've used have made me feel distinctly uneasy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were complicit in the creation of brain-dumps and other forms of cheating.
    Last edited by EagerDinosaur; 01-09-2017 at 05:12 AM.
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    #69
    I've actually had the proctors whisper under their breath a website name that used to have actual CCNA tests / answers when I failed, I had no idea there was a thing called brain dumping before that.

    Companies will send CCIE's to get their certificates together as well, have the highest level / most likely to pass engineer take it first, then if he passes great, and he passes everything he was tested on (including his answers and score) onto another engineer to memorize / study all night.

    These are the type of people who put "CCIE (Written)" on their email signature, so everyone knows they can memorize answers.
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    #70
    I had a similar experience with dumps. I honestly studied for the CCNA and, a few months before taking it, a friend got me a dump with lots of questions. I tried to answer most of them, but I knew I would have failed that test if I had took it right there.
    I asked to some of my coworkers, and most said they would read the material, take some notes, and then go to the brain dumps, to the point of knowing the answer without looking at the questions. And almost everyone agreed that, in the end, MOST local companies check your certifications, or take them into consideration for a possible rise in payment.
    Now, I am beginning to gather material for the CCNP R&S, and after reading lots of people who got their certification through the honest route, it gives me the motivation to study all the material.
    It's true that getting the certification is important, but having the knowledge is way better. I know because I got the CCNA after almost 1 year on a Network Analyst job. I was asked to teach new guys (some with CCNA certs) to do the troubleshooting. And OMG... I think that was the time I thought getting the CCNA would be a piece of cake.

    As many people have said before, the best way to filter the brain dumpers is to set an appropriate lab in the job interview. And maybe expand our people network so, when a position needs to be filled, we can recommend a person with a good set of skills (both tech and inter-personal skills) to get the job.
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    #71
    I can see how braindumps could be a good study aid say to help the legitimate people who studied get that reassurance of passing. It sucks when you study and go oh wow that was harder than expected. Like anything else something that could be a good resource gets used improperly and the good people suffer. I have always been too nervous of briandumps as the sites all seem majorily shady. Why not just study a little extra and pass is how I look at it.
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  23. Senior Member
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    #72
    Quote Originally Posted by xxxkaliboyxxx View Post
    If you want to talk about brain dumping and paper tigers, you should look no further than DoD. Now I can only speak for the Army, since I worked on the uniform and currently on the civilian side. Not only is brain dumping allowed behind closed doors, it's actually encourage. I mean seriously, these guys are getting hired purely on certifications in order to meet DoD requirement (you can tell within 5 minutes who the guys/gals are). Not only that, even when they bring in professional companies to conduct a bootcamp on an Army installations, the instructors are passing out dumps at the end of class. Now would they have the balls to do that without prior approval? I have no idea, but on the Army side you can actually get hired without any actual credentials and they will give you 30 days to pass the exam. If that isn't a undertone to brain dump...

    With that said, any company of worth is going to see right through it. Take for example when I interviewed with your search engine. I made it all the way to the final face to face interview and there is no way anyone that brain dump would ever make it that far. They bombarded me with scenario questions for hours. I felt good leaving the interview so I could only imagine that only someone that really knew his stuff would of outshined me for the engineer role.

    Case in point, any job and company of any worth can tell who the fakers are.
    I, respectfully, disagree. I've taken certification boot camps personally and on the job. A lot of boot camps are geared toward ensuring the student passes. It's good for business and their reputation. Plus, there's no way they can accurately and effectively teach all of the material in the time provided. I took a CEHv9 boot camp in December. The teacher didn't provide tests. But he didn't cover all of the chapters in the official EC Council books or perform all the labs. There were a lot of students who didn't have a cyber security or strong IT background. So, more than a week later, I'm not sure what the pass rate is for the class. It has nothing to do with the DoD. It just so happens that the DoD is a customer that procures and fills the seats in these boot camps in order to be compliant with DoD 8570/8140.

    Also, government personnel "have" 6 months to get their IAT/IAM level certification. Contractors are "supposed" to be hired with the required certification. But they can also be granted a waiver. Though it does look bad for the contracting company. Again, it is more for compliance.
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  24. Senior Member Moldygr33nb3an's Avatar
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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by spiderjericho View Post
    Also, government personnel "have" 6 months to get their IAT/IAM level certification. Contractors are "supposed" to be hired with the required certification. But they can also be granted a waiver. Though it does look bad for the contracting company. Again, it is more for compliance.
    Interesting. I was talking to a contracting company about this recently for a friend and I was flabbergasted when they said my friend had to have his MSCA first before hiring. I always thought there was a grace period. Thanks for clearing this up.
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  25. Senior Member si20's Avatar
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    #74
    One of the above quotes was very interesting. Dumps IN the workplace. I need to be a bit careful about how I word this because it will be obvious if said dumper ever reads it. But I personally witnessed a very clever way of dumping an exam being done in the workplace - it was absolutely encouraged by the team/managers. That's all I can say.

    I personally am against dumping and wasn't taking the aforementioned exam. If I dumped an entire exam i'd feel bad enough, but if I got a job off the back of it - i'd feel like a complete and utter cheat at that point.

    I don't feel like a dump should ever be needed. If the practice questions are close to the real questions without being exactly the same, then you should be in good shape to take the exam in my eyes.
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  26. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by dave330i View Post
    I don't care how you got your cert. If you can't answer my questions, you're not getting hired by me.
    What are your questions? How much does the job pay? What are the hours? How long do I get for lunch? Can I get a advance on next weeks paycheck? I know I'm new, but can I have 3 weeks paid vacation for go to Europe? My dog developed a skin condition, I'm afraid I'm going to need to take family leave. You know I don't think this is going to work out, I decided not to take the job after all.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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