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  1. Senior Member xxxkaliboyxxx's Avatar
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    #76
    Quote Originally Posted by spiderjericho View Post
    I, respectfully, disagree. I've taken certification boot camps personally and on the job. A lot of boot camps are geared toward ensuring the student passes. It's good for business and their reputation. Plus, there's no way they can accurately and effectively teach all of the material in the time provided. I took a CEHv9 boot camp in December. The teacher didn't provide tests. But he didn't cover all of the chapters in the official EC Council books or perform all the labs. There were a lot of students who didn't have a cyber security or strong IT background. So, more than a week later, I'm not sure what the pass rate is for the class. It has nothing to do with the DoD. It just so happens that the DoD is a customer that procures and fills the seats in these boot camps in order to be compliant with DoD 8570/8140.

    Also, government personnel "have" 6 months to get their IAT/IAM level certification. Contractors are "supposed" to be hired with the required certification. But they can also be granted a waiver. Though it does look bad for the contracting company. Again, it is more for compliance.
    I can only speak from my last 8 years in the Army. All these boot camps I have attended have been on military bases. I been in classes where they all been military and in class where I was the only active member. Whatever the case, dumps were being passed out or hinted at, plain and simple. I'm talking about boot camps across the world at different military bases. Also, the 30 day cert might of been an internal policy. Now that I'm on the civilian side working for the military, they require new guys to come in having their baseline certification, but a grace period for a CE cert.
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    #77
    Kali - former co worker went to a very presitgous camp in Atlanta for the MCSE. Every single course had a dump passed out at the end of the class. Everyone got their MCSE.

    Fast forward to last year and my boss recently got her PMP and she received a dump to help with the exam. This one might of been similar, not the actual exam but it helped her pass.

    I think more people dump that don't. While I was working as a team lead I remember seeing CCNA dumps on a few of the techs desktop. I just chuckled, I honestly don't care I am not the moral police.....
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  4. Senior Member xxxkaliboyxxx's Avatar
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    #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    Kali - former co worker went to a very presitgous camp in Atlanta for the MCSE. Every single course had a dump passed out at the end of the class. Everyone got their MCSE.

    Fast forward to last year and my boss recently got her PMP and she received a dump to help with the exam. This one might of been similar, not the actual exam but it helped her pass.

    I think more people dump that don't. While I was working as a team lead I remember seeing CCNA dumps on a few of the techs desktop. I just chuckled, I honestly don't care I am not the moral police.....
    I wouldn't say I care, but I would be lying if I say it doesn't bother me when it comes to the DoD specially. It bothers me because I loved my time in the military and I hate the incompetence on the IT side of things, I would see it day in and day out first hand, the compliancy and self-entitlement.
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  5. 518
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    #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Moldygr33nb3an View Post
    Because it's cheaper to pay a contracting company for minimally qualified personnel, than pay DOD employees pay + full benefits and retirement for life.
    minimally-qualified paper-tiger defense contractor here. most GS that I worked with won't even pass the interview I give on candidates for defense contracting jobs. they think my questions are CCIE level, no seriously. If you know the CCNA material, it's basically off of that.
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  6. 518
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    #80
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky0977 View Post
    I'm not going to paint a broad brush and state that it occurs everywhere in the DOD. My experience came from when I was on vacation and they decided to have a week long bootcamp for the CASP. I wasn't able to attend so they paid for my books and online CBT classes that I spent 6 months studying for. When I actually came around to taking the test, I thought I failed and did poorly only to find out that I passed but didn't know my actual score. I went back to work and asked my boss how so many people were able to pass the test with only a 5 day class. He showed me the study guide the instructor had them take home at the end of the day and to my amazement, they were the exact same questions on my exam. This is the AF-DOD and I complained to my boss but he just told me "Hey, people gotta feed their families".

    In the end as the others have said, the ones who actually studied will eventually move up the totem pole or these mindless f%cks will learn how to tap dance around when questioned. Till then, just realize you're gonna have to do your job and embarrass these clowns when an actual issue arises.
    Yup, seen that on Sec+ bootcamps conducted on AF base, too. A company needs to maintain their 97% pass rate afterall. Worst, the testing center in Bagram Airfield was shutdown in 2010. The proctor was taking money from test takers, $2k for CCNA. And just like what lucky0977 mentioned, one day their network went down and nobody could figure it out...we're talking about two days of outage. Each Network Admin had to re-interview to keep their job. As well, if you have a buddy inside, the interview questions/answers are leaked.
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by xxxkaliboyxxx View Post
    I wouldn't say I care, but I would be lying if I say it doesn't bother me when it comes to the DoD specially. It bothers me because I loved my time in the military and I hate the incompetence on the IT side of things, I would see it day in and day out first hand, the compliancy and self-entitlement.
    Most organizations in the DoD are doing it for compliancy i.e. check in the box.
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  8. Senior Member Moldygr33nb3an's Avatar
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    #82
    Quote Originally Posted by 518 View Post
    minimally-qualified paper-tiger defense contractor here. most GS that I worked with won't even pass the interview I give on candidates for defense contracting jobs. they think my questions are CCIE level, no seriously. If you know the CCNA material, it's basically off of that.
    Not trying to get in a GS vs Contractor debacle here. I use to be a contractor and I will agree, contractors work several times harder than GS employees - generally because they are looking for that next GS opening. However, in most cases (I've been through multiple contracts during my time) once the contract expires, it goes to the next lowest bidder, then the company that wins the award, sub-contracts out for an even lower bidder. These companies require certifications and minimal qualifications because they are just trying to fill a spot with a warm body so they can get paid.

    As for qualifications between the two. Contracting companies hire from the out-side and have free-will for the interview. A lot of GS positions hire internally and the interview process is constrained to certain questions and must be applied to all interviews.

    So a ****-bag GS can easily slip through the interview process if he was provided the questions ahead of time from one of his buddies.
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  9. 518
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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Moldygr33nb3an View Post
    Not trying to get in a GS vs Contractor debacle here. I use to be a contractor and I will agree, contractors work several times harder than GS employees - generally because they are looking for that next GS opening. However, in most cases (I've been through multiple contracts during my time) once the contract expires, it goes to the next lowest bidder, then the company that wins the award, sub-contracts out for an even lower bidder. These companies require certifications and minimal qualifications because they are just trying to fill a spot with a warm body so they can get paid.

    As for qualifications between the two. Contracting companies hire from the out-side and have free-will for the interview. A lot of GS positions hire internally and the interview process is constrained to certain questions and must be applied to all interviews.

    So a ****-bag GS can easily slip through the interview process if he was provided the questions ahead of time from one of his buddies.
    no worries, sir. I know exactly where you coming from. sadly, thats what a lot of contractors do..a warm body. "Oh, you have an SCI? cool, you can have this billet so I wouldnt have to pay 20% penalty." Normally, a contractor pays a penalty of 15-20% of the base salary for each month the "seat" is empty.

    I just want to point out that when a prime contract wins, they are obligated to award part of their work to a sub. and based on my experience, subs actually pays A LOT more than the prime.
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  10. Senior Member Moldygr33nb3an's Avatar
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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by 518 View Post
    they are obligated to award part of their work to a sub. and based on my experience, subs actually pays A LOT more than the prime.
    I did not know this. The last contract that came through where I'm at was SAIC, then they subcontracted out to some smaller company which paid less - a lot of good people left. I guess it depends on the contracts. Too much bureaucracy to keep up. I can't even request contract service and support from a sole service provider without jumping through hoops.

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  11. 518
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    #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Moldygr33nb3an View Post
    I did not know this. The last contract that came through where I'm at was SAIC, then they subcontracted out to some smaller company which paid less - a lot of good people left. I guess it depends on the contracts. Too much bureaucracy to keep up. I can't even request contract service and support from a sole service provider without jumping through hoops.

    "Are they a small business?"

    "Are they owned by a woman?"

    "Native American owned?"

    "Veteran owned?"



    Me: "I just need their products...thx"
    back when Five Rivers and Vista Ops were small business (2008-2013-ish), an IMO/WGA gets paid $240k in Afghanistan vs ITT/Vectrus' Help Desk/ADPE Techs $135k.

    Reason why smaller business pays a lot more is they have less stakeholders to answer to. Thats not the case for bigger companies obviously.
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  12. Senior Member daviddws's Avatar
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    #86
    I would say this .. get over it. It's good that you have put in the time and really understand the concepts, but having a big head about your abilities will not help you make friends in IT. Yes there are plenty of arrogant, self congratulating morons in the field, but they will pass away like leaves in the fall. Just keep a level head and perform.
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  13. Senior Member
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    #87
    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkNewb View Post
    Right ^ I just wish our military would have people in these positions that actually are able to pass these tests on their own. Especially if they feel it is supposed to be a requirement. Little disappointing to hear about all the dumps being passed around there.
    Well...that is a loaded comment and is pointed toward a systematic root issue in how the DoD recruits, initial training, provides on-the-job-training, opportunities to obtain job experience, intermediate training opportunities (that are mandated), etc cyber/information technology/communications personnel. Most of the time, folks learn either through self-study or being placed into austere situations lol.

    I took a CISSP boot camp. It was about 10-days and it was back when the test was paper-based. We never got any dumps just testing methodology, key focus areas, etc.

    I have attended events where what you say does take place but again, it's endemic of IT training companies. The company has to have a positive success rate or no one is going to attend.
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    #88
    Certs like the OSCP/OSCE and the CCIE seem to separate the men from the boys.
    Neither of these certs are multiple choice. They are practical.
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