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Thread: The talk

  1. Member
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    #1

    Default The talk

    So it finally happen. I had heard about it happening to other people but never thought it would happen to me. My coworkers (well classmates, I'm still in my military IT schooling) turned on me in regards to me getting my certification. They wanted to know why I was wasting my time studying for my CCNENT cert. I had heard of this happening to other people before but it was still, depressing, for lack of a better word, to run across in person. To be fair I had open myself up to this criticize by trying to talk one of my classmates into getting his cert while we have the free time and access to a discount coupon for ICND1 (50% off). I've decide to post a summary of their points here and my counterpoints to 1. Help people on the fence about certs, and 2. To ease my own insecurities and seek the reassurance I need

    Argument 1. Why would I get it now when I can get it free later?
    Reply: Ok so this is one of two valid arguments they gave in my opinion. The military will pay for certain certifications depending upon what your job is as well as other continuing education needs. With that being said I still disagree with it for two reasons. 1. The military isn't going to give that to us right after we finish our schooling, we'll have to get our military specific certs first which could take up to 6 months or at latest a year to get done. 2. The Future is unknown. We don't know how much free time we'll have in the future, all I know is that for the next 3 months I've got nothing going on and time to learn and get my cert. And really I don't think 75 dollars or even the full price of 150 is too much to ask.

    Argument 2: If you really want to study why not study your military certs instead?
    Reply: Ok that's another fair point. For the record it was always my intention to get my military certs as quickly as possible (so I can move on to the certs I really want and have the military pay them for me). With that being said the certs we currently have access to aren't use for those. They're more gear towards promotions (when you reach the higher ranks and want to climb even higher) so for someone like me who doesn't plan on staying in the military, it doesn't really make sense for me to focus on getting those now.

    Argument 3: Why get them now, wait until your closer to leaving and that way you won't have to pay for them again or do CEs.
    Reply: Bad argument. 1. I don't know what the future holds, I don't know how much time I'll have towards the end of my contract to do my certs. 2. I have a long list of certs I would like to get to have a nice and solid foundation of knowledge to sell myself with. I don't even know if I'll finish said list in 6 years. 3. Yes you pay a yearly fee for your certs, welcome to adulting. 4. So with my list set up I shouldn't really have to worry about renewing my certs so long as I keep working and getting a steady flow of certs and even if that doesn't happen I don't understand the logic of people complaining about CEs. CEs are there to help you. NEWS FLASH FOR PEOPLE ABOUT CEs, IT is by its nature a constantly growing and changing field and it's your job/responsibility to make sure you're keeping up to date on your latest cert knowledge. While I could understand the money concerns CEs are free in the military so I find it incredibly lazy to not bother to learn about/verify the latest changes in the field.

    Argument 4:
    You're studying behind times, if you want to get ahead study AI.
    Reply: So um, yea. Definitely the weirdest argument. I was told by several people in the class to stop studying CCNA and start studying AI because that's quote "where the market/future is going". Yeaaaaaaaaa I wasn't sure how to respond to this. AI development isn't the career path I wish to go down, unless they were trying to suggest that within the next decade AI was going to make network admin jobs obsolete (while i haven't kept up with AI technology in detail I've seen nothing that indicates we're anywhere near that).

    So those were the arguments I went up against.
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  3. Scruffy-looking nerfherdr tedjames's Avatar
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    #2
    All my life, in high school, college, work, etc., there has always been at least person who thought he knew better than I did how I should approach life, the universe, and everything (apologies to Douglas Adams). In their eyes, I shouldn't be wasting my time following my own plan but should instead do it this other way. I've made the mistake of following their direction more than once only to realize that I need to listen to myself. I have a plan in mind, and I'm doing this for myself and not for anyone else. Who cares what others think? You're not living for them; you're living for yourself. Do what makes you happy. If you make a wrong turn along the way, learn from that mistake and move on. Don't let anyone else try to convince you otherwise. It's ok to ask advice from someone you respect, but you still need to make your own decisions. In a couple of years (sooner, hopefully), your classmates will be out of your life, so don't worry about them at all.
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    #3
    Just ask another member Squished, he stopped getting cert and training 8 years ago... He would kick your butt so you keep studying
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  5. Reticulating splines... iBrokeIT's Avatar
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    #4
    Those questions aren't being asked from a position of experience questioning your direction, they are coming from a place of ignorance and insecurity. They are projecting their fear that you are doing something to pass them up and are trying to make you doubt your efforts to pull you back down to their level. Have you ever heard the term "crabs in a bucket"?
    Last edited by iBrokeIT; 03-01-2018 at 02:25 PM.
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  6. Member Neil86's Avatar
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    #5
    ignorance and insecurity for sure. Keep on studying. Thanks for your service.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLavoie View Post
    Just ask another member Squished, he stopped getting cert and training 8 years ago... He would kick your butt so you keep studying
    Hah! Definitely don't do what I did.
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    #7
    Who cares what other think.

    Good luck on your path I am sure it will bode well for you.
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  9. Senior Member
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    Who cares what other think.
    I value advice and opinions based largely on the life experience or skill level of the person in question.

    If an IT hiring manager tells me he doesn't want to hear about my career goals and ambitions in an interview, I'm going to listen very carefully even if I don't like what he's saying or how he says it.

    Whether he should consider the opinions of others in the same class to me is something I might consider if I knew whether it was the top-of-the-class Mr.Perfect telling me that, or the class clown.
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    #9
    Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement. This forum is just great
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  11. Senior Member stryder144's Avatar
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    #10
    HCPS123...here is something to think about:

    I work with a lot of IT recruiters in my job, which is, incidentally, teaching IT courses. Experience is key but not the only thing people are looking for. Once you get out of your schooling (AIT, A-School, Tech School, what have you), you will get out into the field and get experience. So that will come.

    In the absence of experience, the recruiter will look for someone with certifications. Not as coveted as experience, but definitely holds value. Who cares about the CE problem? If you build your certification path well, then the CE requirement takes care of itself. You've got Security+. In a year or two, study for and attain your CCNA: Security and you'll have most, if not all, of the CEs required. Incidentally, it will look better on a resume to show that you have had your certification for years instead of just a few months.

    In the absence of experience and certifications, a degree is valued. Don't get me wrong, a degree is extremely important and is used as a means of filtering the many, sometimes thousands, of resumes that pass across the desks of the various recruiters and hiring managers. If you've ever had to read through more than a dozen or so resumes, you'll understand why that is.

    Depending on the city, veteran status also counts positively toward the job hunting process. Many recruiters here in Denver and in Colorado Springs are looking for veterans to hire, especially in IT related defense positions. If you add in a security clearance, the doors budge must easier.

    Now for the kicker: you will be the unicorn that many hiring managers are looking for if you have experience, relevant certifications, a degree, and veteran status (again, a clearance is very helpful). As a crusty old retired SNCO, let me offer this advise: the nay-sayers are going to get out and struggle with the mindset they have, so don't listen to them! Pay attention to your military career requirements, get the military certs, and do what it takes to make sure that you don't run afoul of the system. While you are doing that, continue getting certified, get a degree, and when you feel it is time to pull chalks, you will have a much easier time finding a meaningful post-military career. Let me warn you, though: it will get very disheartening to have what they are saying constantly playing in your mind, day-after-day. Keep strong, march on, and take YOUR career to greater heights than they will ever be able to dream of. If you want to have them turn down the volume, I would just say to keep studying but don't advertise it as much. They will soon tire of flapping their lips and move on to some other bit of junior high drama. All the while, you'll be the one moving on up.
    The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position. ~ Leo Buscaglia

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  12. K-9
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    #11
    I worked with an IT manager who said some very similar things. The best statement ever - "I don't need no piece o' paper to show how much I know."

    Ignore them. Do what you need to do. You are never going to make a horrible mistake in life by getting that CCENT or that CCNA or an academic degree. You MIGHT regret not getting those certs when you had the chance. You won't regret taking life by the beans and overachieving.
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  13. Senior Member NetworkingStudent's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by iBrokeIT View Post
    Those questions aren't being asked from a position of experience questioning your direction, they are coming from a place of ignorance and insecurity. They are projecting their fear that you are doing something to pass them up and are trying to make you doubt your efforts to pull you back down to their level. Have you ever heard the term "crabs in a bucket"?
    +1 on this!!!!!

    I worked at a printing plant before I got into IT. I was so excited because I was going into college. Most people asked me why I was going to school? They thought I was wasting my time, because I could be an operator and make a lot of money. Most people at this plant had no ambition to move on to another career. When I left almost everyone told me congratulations! Also, a lot of them said they wish they could leave, but they got used to make a certain dollar amount. Moreover they were afraid to fail or look for another job. Right now I have a much better life, than I did when I worked at that printing plant.

    to the OP
    Follow you dreams!!!


    I though this would be a good video for you to watch.

    The CCNA Changed My Life!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqE4Uc-pLjw

    The CCNA certification has absolutely changed my life. What can this certification do for you? I can not answer that by no means, but what it will do is validate your resume and then it is up to you to prove yourself when you interview.

    This video is a brief summary of my career and how getting the CCNA changed my life and took me from 6 years of desktop support to a NOC Lead and to the IT Specialist (CCNP) that I am today. Hope you enjoy!
    When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened."

    --Alexander Graham Bell,
    American inventor
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  14. Senior Member LittleBIT's Avatar
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    #13
    Keep doing what you're doing.

    Certifications will pay huge dividends later.

    Laugh all the way to the bank.
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