We just bought a paper MCSE

blargoe · 12-19-2006, 01:49 AM

So I hit up my boss for authorization to purchase study materials and practice exams for the MS Exchange 2003 this weekend. I had pointed him in the direction of Transcender since I had used some of their stuff years ago and was somewhat familiar with them, but he mentioned our offsite tech had completed MCSE training and his instructor had pointed him in the direction of something better.

Intrigued, and on my boss's instruction I asked the guy for more information... it was such a wonderful deal, he went on about how the exam question matched the real test word for word, it was the best thing he had ever seen! I won't mention the name of the company here but it is "THE" site as mentioned here before.

So needless to say I had to report this to my boss immediately. He had unknowingly contributed to the growing pile of paper MCSE's out there. I was VERY disappointed and have lost all confidence in this particular tech now. The boss was so mad that this instructor would do this and invalidate or greatly lessen the value of the training our company shelled out thousands for. The whole thing just ticks me off like you wouldn't believe. I guess some training centers feel a few more passing marks will improve their bottom line.

Just wanted to blow off some steam.

Blargoe

Webmaster · 12-19-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blargoe

The whole thing just ticks me off like you wouldn't believe.

Oh, I believe you

Good thing you brought it out in the open, that's what can make the difference. Don't accept it from peers, instructors and students. And I'm sure it your boss will respect you for telling him instead of going along.

Quote:

I guess some training centers feel a few more passing marks will improve their bottom line.

Yup. They want to be able to claim 99%+ of their students pass, even offer guarantees...

darkuser · 12-19-2006, 03:07 AM

wow !!! 99% of morons given the answers pass !!!.

I want to hire the "other" one .....

Alien · 12-19-2006, 07:59 AM

Which is one reason why i stick to Cisco but fake CCNA's do exist infact at one time a fake "CCNA, CCNP" crawled here from somewhere but he didn't last long. Probably slithered his way back to where he belong

Megadeth4168 · 12-19-2006, 01:09 PM

It upsets me to hear this as well! I'm in the process of studying to pass these exams to help boost my career and these people cheating are screwing it up for me.

At least I have the satisfaction of learning the material and being able to apply it to my job... It's amazing how much I've learned and applied to my current job just in the past year of studying.

It is unfortunate that some people use the material without knowing what it is. One of my buddies was telling me that a guy he knows gave him material from One of the main braindump sites.... He didn't phrase it like that though.... Problem is that my buddy had no clue what a braindump was. After i explained to him what he had, he got rid of it.

bighornsheep · 12-19-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadeth4168

It is unfortunate that some people use the material without knowing what it is. One of my buddies was telling me that a guy he knows gave him material from One of the main braindump sites.... He didn't phrase it like that though.... Problem is that my buddy had no clue what a braindump was. After i explained to him what he had, he got rid of it.

agree, educating is the first step. It's another form of piracy I think. Most people, once they understand, are willing to do the right thing.

malcybood · 12-19-2006, 01:36 PM

it is annoying, sure.....

but the bottom line is, people who cheat their way through exams get found out!.....eventually

If you're good enough yourself in your job, your employer and prospective employers will see that, not pay attention to what certs you have and think "he probably cheated if he is an MCSE"

Orion82698 · 12-19-2006, 04:56 PM

Ouch... I wonder what going to happen to that tech. Sucks to be him.

Good for you. You've certainly earned brownie points with the boss!

blargoe · 12-19-2006, 05:54 PM

I don't think there will be any negative repercussions on the tech, I think it was pretty much a situation where the instructor told everyone to use that software to prepare for the exam and to his surprise the questions ended up being identical. Or that's what I would like to believe.

amyamandaallen · 12-20-2006, 09:30 AM

Just my input....

Im looking for another job and hence thats one of the reasons I got certifications ( and a great deal of experience/fun/stress along the way

). However even though its now 18 months since I completed my MCDST I came to do something the other day with recovering a non responsive MS application. Now imagine the scene, I go to a new job with half a dozen certs, which were properly achieved and I dont even remember the correct steps to recovery a broken app, I could well come accross as a paper MCDST.

Kinda puts me off studying for the 291 and acheiving my MCSA.

Any thoughts??

geekie · 12-20-2006, 10:07 AM

Hi blargoe

I noticed you have the MCTS Vista under your certifications. Does that mean you have received your results?

I'm desperately waiting in anticipation!!!!

sprkymrk · 12-20-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amyamandaallen

Just my input....

Im looking for another job and hence thats one of the reasons I got certifications ( and a great deal of experience/fun/stress along the way

). However even though its now 18 months since I completed my MCDST I came to do something the other day with recovering a non responsive MS application. Now imagine the scene, I go to a new job with half a dozen certs, which were properly achieved and I dont even remember the correct steps to recovery a broken app, I could well come accross as a paper MCDST.

Kinda puts me off studying for the 291 and acheiving my MCSA.

Any thoughts??

Don't feel bad, we all have days like that. One incident doesn't brand you for life. Hang in there, keep learning, keep doing, keep trying to improve.

Philippatos · 12-20-2006, 01:17 PM

Yeah, well, to play devil's advocate for a moment, some people join Skull and Bones just for the drawers full of cheat sheets in the basement. Two of them ran for president in 2004.

Heck, I even think Harvard sells paper MBAs to the highest bidders. Yet W buying his from there didn't hurt the institution's reputation at all.

So maybe it's counterproductive even talking about it. Why not just sweep it under the rug like all the flagrant cheating in higher education and just go on our merry IT way?

I see no reason for IT workers to be beating themselves up over it anyway. Plenty of other people are already attempting to do it with the H1B visa program. It's not like they're bringing doctors and lawyers over from India, you know.

Philippatos · 12-20-2006, 02:51 PM

I guess my counter-argument, in short, is that cheating isn't endemic to IT and certification tests are, in general, no better or worse than other tests. If you want to effectively combat cheating, therefore, you need to address the culture that allows and even encourages it.

sprkymrk · 12-20-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philippatos

I guess my counter-argument, in short, is that cheating isn't endemic to IT and certification tests are, in general, no better or worse than other tests. If you want to effectively combat cheating, therefore, you need to address the culture that allows and even encourages it.

Agreed.

blargoe · 12-26-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekie

Hi blargoe

I noticed you have the MCTS Vista under your certifications. Does that mean you have received your results?

I'm desperately waiting in anticipation!!!!

I should work on formatting my profile better, it says that I'm working toward the MCTS certs. Sorry for the confusion!

homerj742 · 01-04-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blargoe

Intrigued, and on my boss's instruction I asked the guy for more information... it was such a wonderful deal, he went on about how the exam question matched the real test word for word, it was the best thing he had ever seen!

If I was your boss, I would've been suspicious RIGHT from there! wow!!!

computerguy9355 · 01-15-2007, 04:21 AM

Paper MCSEs and CCNPs are everywhere, there is no way you can stop them.

If I ever get a chance to interview a job candidate for a tech position, I would nail them to death.

strauchr · 02-04-2007, 05:24 AM

I just thought of a possible answer to not hiring braindumping cheats. As an employer or interviewer why not ask to see someones transcript. If they have done the MCSE in a matter of weeks then there is a good chance they braindumped. If, like me, you have studied properly then there should be gaps between exams. Most of mine have a 2 month gap, some less, some more.

Its not foolproof as people can just space out their cheating but it certainly may help in picking genuine people.

bighornsheep · 02-04-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strauchr

If they have done the MCSE in a matter of weeks then there is a good chance they braindumped. If, like me, you have studied properly then there should be gaps between exams. Most of mine have a 2 month gap, some less, some more.

In that case, I must have dumped then, according to my transcript, I have A+, Network+, 290, 291, 270 all in three weeks.....

strauchr · 02-05-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bighornsheep

Quote:

Originally Posted by strauchr

If they have done the MCSE in a matter of weeks then there is a good chance they braindumped. If, like me, you have studied properly then there should be gaps between exams. Most of mine have a 2 month gap, some less, some more.

In that case, I must have dumped then, according to my transcript, I have A+, Network+, 290, 291, 270 all in three weeks.....

No offense but did you? I mean its impossible to actually learn the material and pass 5 exams in 3 weeks.

Even so, its not like you have done the entire MCSE in 3 weeks.

zebra-3 · 02-05-2007, 02:00 PM

Are you sure there are working braindumps ? someone gave me the braindumps for exam 290, I didnt use them because I need to be proficient with server 2003 not to just have the paper cert and one thing i hate is practice questions. However the braindump he gave me has 400 questions !!!! he told me it should be the same questions as the 290 exam.

I used my traditional material, cbt nuggets, etc... and failed the exam due to a lack of hands on.
Anyway, right after i came back from the exam, by curiosity I went through the 400 braindump questions that were given to me, I couldn't find one matching the exam questions.

So memorising 400 questions and answers would be as long as studying the exam and I really doubt the question phrasing is the same...

I have now setup a 2003 server and a winXP client, and I am having fun studying 290, it is way more exiting to study that way, I can only recommend that, build your server, play with IIS, AD, etc, it can be fun.

zebra-3 · 02-05-2007, 02:27 PM

I was using yesterdy Self Test Software for my 290, the questions are looking really similar to the ones i had in the previous exam i have failed, is it a braindump ?

zebra-3 · 02-05-2007, 03:00 PM

me again, one question just occured to me, is any software simulating exams considered as cheat ?

if so, well thats cool with me I just hate that, thats the most exhausting way of studying !
1 hour of that and i am racked for the day.

bighornsheep · 02-05-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strauchr

No offense but did you? I mean its impossible to actually learn the material and pass 5 exams in 3 weeks.

Even so, its not like you have done the entire MCSE in 3 weeks.

If I had actually cheated, I must be extremely bad at it. However, no, the answer is no!

I achieved A+ in Dec 05
MCDST in July 06
Network+ in Aug 06

never bothered to submit my scores until Dec in 06.

I failed 291 three times in Sept, Oct, Nov respectively
and then I decided to write 290 instead on Dec 9 and passed
then wrote 291 on Dec 16 and passed
then wrote 270 on Dec 22 and passed.