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  1. Senior Member
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    #1

    Default Whats beyond the CCIE?

    In Voice, we have the CCIE in Voice which is an expert level certificate. So lets say a person has a CCIE in Voice and then gains lots of experience which he wants to manifest on a certificate. So whats the cert which is beyond and above the CCIE?

    Secondly is it correct to equate CCIEs to Masters of Phds? (not accurately but just to give people an idea of how high the CCIE is?)
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  3. MIPS processor please Mishra's Avatar
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  4. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #3

    Default Re: Whats beyond the CCIE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingdongbubble
    In Voice, we have the CCIE in Voice which is an expert level certificate. So lets say a person has a CCIE in Voice and then gains lots of experience which he wants to manifest on a certificate. So whats the cert which is beyond and above the CCIE?

    Secondly is it correct to equate CCIEs to Masters of Phds? (not accurately but just to give people an idea of how high the CCIE is?)
    There is talk of an architect certification. There is the CCDE but that is a design certification on the same level as the CCIE.

    CCIE qualifications are rather specialised. The architect qualification will be of interest to people with many years experience putting solutions together in a wide range of settings. The requirements will be strict to obtain this one, you will need to convince cisco of your applicable portfolio of experience.

    The CCIE was known for years as the blackbelt or doctorate of networking. What you learn to obtain it should take you that plane. It demonstrates what you are capable of given technical constraints and time pressure and to some extent your intellect. It is a somewhat uncomfortable analogy however as comparing the CCIE to academic postgraduate studies is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.


    In terms of workrate, it's still difficult to compare. Generally you will be putting hundreds of hours in an attempt to obtain the CCIE covering a fierce body of learning. The same can be said for Masters and PhD programmes but not all. Some PhD's are far less gruelling. Progression to CCIE can take years of elapsed time. You do a lot of research to complete the CCIE but you do not add to a body of knowledge as you would with PhD results.

    In terms of certification completion/survival rates..I don't have any figures but I would imagine the pass rates of Masters and PhD candidates is much higher than CCIE candidates.
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  5. Senior Member
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    #4
    CCIE is easier to get then PHD.

    I would say a CCIE is a bachelors in networking.

    2 CCIE would be a masters.

    A bachelors in computer science is hard to get.
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  6. Senior Member bighornsheep's Avatar
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Turgon
    I don't have any figures but I would imagine the pass rates of Masters and PhD candidates is much higher than CCIE candidates.
    That's because most people who would not pass and be successfully in getting their graduate degree (masters & doctorates) would not be accepted into the respective programs, whereas technically anyone can write the CCIE exam even if they have no prior qualifications.

    Graduate schools will not accept students whom they can not see achieving the degree successfully, this may be slightly different and of a higher benchmark than bachelor's because the school relies on the success and achievements of their graduate work to build reputation and research endowment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmember
    A bachelors in computer science is hard to get.
    It's not that hard... oh wait, I can only say that cause I have one already...
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  7. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bighornsheep
    Quote Originally Posted by Turgon
    I don't have any figures but I would imagine the pass rates of Masters and PhD candidates is much higher than CCIE candidates.
    That's because most people who would not pass and be successfully in getting their graduate degree (masters & doctorates) would not be accepted into the respective programs, whereas technically anyone can write the CCIE exam even if they have no prior qualifications.

    Graduate schools will not accept students whom they can not see achieving the degree successfully, this may be slightly different and of a higher benchmark than bachelor's because the school relies on the success and achievements of their graduate work to build reputation and research endowment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmember
    A bachelors in computer science is hard to get.
    It's not that hard... oh wait, I can only say that cause I have one already...
    It's really a question of ones personal experience if you are to make what is a very difficult comparison between academia and something like the CCIE. They are different. There are many CCIE's on groupstudy who are well qualified academically in the sciences and engineering and come right out and said the CCIE was by far the hardest accomplishment. I have a BA(Hons) and a Masters and I would say it's definately up there. But this 'assessment' needs to be tempered by the volume of study required and your availability to do it!

    Fulltime postgrads concentrate their time and energies on the requirements to get qualified (although not all, I know one PhD who said he spent most of his time in the pub). Many CCIE candidates are already holding down timeconsuming and demanding positions so covering the necessary out of hours can certainly be a challenge!

    The other thing to consider is the disparte entry requirements. One could argue that the academic requirements to be admitted to postgraduate studies lends itself to ensuring Masters and PhD candidates are better equipped to see the programme through to completion.

    But regardless of stricter entry requirements this doesn't mean postgraduate studies should be so much harder than completing a CCIE where the entry requirements are much looser. Many fine network engineers with good academic backgrounds fall short on the CCIE ask.
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    #7
    Many Engineers who hold CCIE's also fall short of getting Bachelors and Masters of SCience degrees.

    The thing about Computer Science Degree is you need a lot of Math and Science courses.

    Many Cisco Engineers would have a hard time with Math and Science, especially guys who had a hard time subnetting.


    Its in my opinion that the CCIE has become overhyped in many ways. I agree that the certification is difficult because of sheer amount of time, but so is getting a computer science degree.

    Getting a computer science degree is going to take most people at least 4 years, if not more.

    Many people obtain the CCIE in less time.

    Then you figure to get into a Masters program you need a good grades, a GRE score which shows you have a good understanding of the topics, and then you need to write a thesis.

    Getting a Masters degree is computer science is a great feat, definitely harder then getting a CCIE.


    Guys with computer science masters are writing protocols and standards whereas CCIE's are using the technologies for the most part.
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    #8
    Comparing the process of getting a Computer Science degree to getting a CCIE is comparing apples to squirrels.

    Besides that, the computer science degree takes 4 years because the university forces you to take that long with it. Without the structure that is imposed by a university and the requisite courses that most of them require that have nothing to do with math or computer science, I have no doubt that one could obtain the academic knowledge in less than half that time if they were so inclined.
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    #9

    Default Re: Whats beyond the CCIE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingdongbubble
    In Voice, we have the CCIE in Voice which is an expert level certificate. So lets say a person has a CCIE in Voice and then gains lots of experience which he wants to manifest on a certificate. So whats the cert which is beyond and above the CCIE?

    Secondly is it correct to equate CCIEs to Masters of Phds? (not accurately but just to give people an idea of how high the CCIE is?)
    You cannot compare certifications against Degrees.... that is just my opinion.
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    #10
    if someone gets all ccie's you'll be awarded the title of

    master guru

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    Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can 'nee' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
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  12. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmember
    Many Engineers who hold CCIE's also fall short of getting Bachelors and Masters of SCience degrees.

    The thing about Computer Science Degree is you need a lot of Math and Science courses.

    Many Cisco Engineers would have a hard time with Math and Science, especially guys who had a hard time subnetting.


    Its in my opinion that the CCIE has become overhyped in many ways. I agree that the certification is difficult because of sheer amount of time, but so is getting a computer science degree.

    Getting a computer science degree is going to take most people at least 4 years, if not more.

    Many people obtain the CCIE in less time.

    Then you figure to get into a Masters program you need a good grades, a GRE score which shows you have a good understanding of the topics, and then you need to write a thesis.

    Getting a Masters degree is computer science is a great feat, definitely harder then getting a CCIE.


    Guys with computer science masters are writing protocols and standards whereas CCIE's are using the technologies for the most part.
    It's comparing apples and oranges. There are good number of CCIEs who contribute to Nanog and the development of RFCs and standards. Sure you need maths and science for a Computer science degree but the CCIE isn't a maths and science body of knowledge. It's rather different.

    It requires a theoretical grounding but is primarily practical in nature, practical to the expert level There are people who have excelled at maths, science and engineering who have found the CCIE requirements very difficult and not just because of time. Conversely people with backgrounds in journalism have found it demanding but less difficult in terms of understanding. Very difficult to compare the two.
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    #12
    Yes I agree we cant compare degrees and certs. How could I give a quick impression to a person about what level the CCIE is at? I wasnt trying to compare them but rather give a general and very basic comparison between the two. You could even call it a symbolic comparison.

    Lets say in Voice, there the CCVP and beyond that is the CCIE in Voice. So whats beyond the CCIe in Voice?
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  14. ROFL-Copter pilot snadam's Avatar
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by blargoe
    Comparing the process of getting a Computer Science degree to getting a CCIE is comparing apples to squirrels.

    Besides that, the computer science degree takes 4 years because the university forces you to take that long with it. Without the structure that is imposed by a university and the requisite courses that most of them require that have nothing to do with math or computer science, I have no doubt that one could obtain the academic knowledge in less than half that time if they were so inclined.
    an emphatic +1 and at about half the cost! Most universities MAKE you take a bunch of 'filler' classes along the way too.
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  15. Virtual Member undomiel's Avatar
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    #14
    All this filler classes are probably the reason that I don't have my art degree right now. All that unnecessary work completely burns you out for the stuff you're really wanting to focus on.
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  16. Senior Member
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    #15
    The CCIE is overhyped (in terms of difficulty) because there are way too many people who have it or are pursuing who havent been engaged in undergrad engineering studies.

    I found out yesterday that some guy I knew recently passed the lab for the CCIE r&s and ALMOST pass the security one (i thought they didnt give you the results...?) . He has a computer science B.S. When i talked to him he was CCNP, CCSP and CCDP, and he told me it took him 4years to get there, but it was not the CLOSE to the same experience as being in university working for the B.S. He has been working and living life without stressing too much with the studies. He says he has kept a constant pace but nothing comparable to the amount of hours and nonstop frustration that for some periods everybody seems to have when studying in the university.

    The thing with the CCIE or any other level certification is that it is too specific and oriented to what you use in everyday's work. That is not necessarily the case with a B.S or even a Ph.D.

    Only by reading the exam blueprints of all the exams you have to take going from 0 to CCIE one should realize that thinking of a CCIE as a Ph.D is exaggeration and a half. It might be more like a Master's, but you can get it wiothout having the B.S knowledge and qualifications.

    I think they are two different things but in terms of difficulty they can be compared. At this moment I have a lot of promises in my current career but i decided to change to IT-networking and hopefully wil be CCNA in the next 2-3 weeks. I dont know which path i will take but there are 3 employer in my country who pay for absolutely anything in order for their employees to go after the CCIE. I would even take a pay cut in order to get in one of those companies. I am after the CCIE. Maybe in a couple years I can talk out of my own experience but as i said, only by looking at the exam objectives and blueprints it is definitely obvious that the certifications are considered so hard because way too many people who havent been in college are after them, and they cant compare with objectivity.

    I have gone through the whole CCNA exam blueprint in about 75days and i think I am now 85% ready (borderline ready to pass the exam maybe, i cant know for sure). I have a bachelor's in Civil engineering and I have to think about the CCNA just as one trimester of a full time student of my university/degree. In fact, considerably less in terms of hours of work and overall complexity. If the CCNP is twice as much material then a CCNP is only 3 trimesters and a B.S in any engineering takes 14 trimesters, and in the case of my university about 4% of the students make it in that time, being BOTH average and mode 17 trimesters.

    I think the comparisson of the previous paragraph should be enlightening to most people who are after certifications and havent been around an university before. I might be off somewhere though, but i doubt it .
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  17. MIPS processor please Mishra's Avatar
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMR
    I found out yesterday that some guy I knew recently passed the lab for the CCIE r&s and ALMOST pass the security one (i thought they didnt give you the results...?) . He has a computer science B.S. When i talked to him he was CCNP, CCSP and CCDP, and he told me it took him 4years to get there, but it was not the CLOSE to the same experience as being in university working for the B.S. He has been working and living life without stressing too much with the studies. He says he has kept a constant pace but nothing comparable to the amount of hours and nonstop frustration that for some periods everybody seems to have when studying in the university.
    And some people think the CCIE is harder than college.

    It is a moot argument.
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  18. Senior Member
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mishra
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMR
    I found out yesterday that some guy I knew recently passed the lab for the CCIE r&s and ALMOST pass the security one (i thought they didnt give you the results...?) . He has a computer science B.S. When i talked to him he was CCNP, CCSP and CCDP, and he told me it took him 4years to get there, but it was not the CLOSE to the same experience as being in university working for the B.S. He has been working and living life without stressing too much with the studies. He says he has kept a constant pace but nothing comparable to the amount of hours and nonstop frustration that for some periods everybody seems to have when studying in the university.
    And some people think the CCIE is harder than college.

    It is a moot argument.
    To me it seems pretty clear that it is simpler but I am basically speculating because all I know it's the program/exam blueprints. I think what somebody said about the M.S/Ph.D being the guys who are developing the technologies and writing the protocols is the key point here. Those guys probably all have CCIEs, but mostly because it is a great certification to have in terms of professional maketability (is that a word??).
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by blargoe
    Comparing the process of getting a Computer Science degree to getting a CCIE is comparing apples to squirrels.
    I think that summarises it nicely, its quite a picture also isnt it? But id replace apples with birds (because i couldnt find a picture of apples and squirrels fighting funnily enough)

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  20. Senior Member
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    #19
    The only thing that I know of is a ccde , and its supposed to be on equal terms of ccie.
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    #20
    No no I am not trying to compare CCIEs with Univ directly. Lets say a non techie person came to me and I said I am a CCIE. He would ask, whats a CCIE. I would tell him. Then he would ask me what level of knowledge does it show? We are just talking SYMBOLICALLY not technically. I am not at all comparing Univ and CCIE. I am jsut trying to figure out what a symbolic and easy way to tell a non techie would be about the CCIE.
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    #21
    I consider anyone with ccie a GAWD!
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmember
    A bachelors in computer science is hard to get.
    Thank you.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by snadam
    Besides that, the computer science degree takes 4 years because the university forces you to take that long with it.
    No. It varies. More universities are allowing students to be more flexible with schedules as it promotes higher enrollment. I could have finished in 2 years had I done 8 consecutive terms instead of taking the summers off.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by undomiel
    All this filler classes are probably the reason that I don't have my art degree right now. All that unnecessary work completely burns you out for the stuff you're really wanting to focus on.
    Think of them as "character building" courses.
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  26. Senior Member
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingdongbubble
    Secondly is it correct to equate CCIEs to Masters of Phds? (not accurately but just to give people an idea of how high the CCIE is?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingdongbubble
    No no I am not trying to compare CCIEs with Univ directly. Lets say a non techie person came to me and I said I am a CCIE. He would ask, whats a CCIE. I would tell him. Then he would ask me what level of knowledge does it show? We are just talking SYMBOLICALLY not technically. I am not at all comparing Univ and CCIE. I am jsut trying to figure out what a symbolic and easy way to tell a non techie would be about the CCIE.
    Maybe i missunderstood the first bit? Put it this way, if there are 2,200,000 MCPs excluding the numbers of Comptia and Cisco certified. I dont know what the number of CCNAs is. But lets just say there are 2.5 million people in some form of networking worldwide. And there are only about 20,000 CCIEs then that equals less than 1%. That and the all-day lab would give a non-technical person an idea of how difficult it is to achieve. I dont know what the numbers of Masters/PhDs to Degrees is but i would guess its more than 1%.
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