Are Microsoft/Cisco certifications worth it?

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 02:04 PM

I have thought about getting my CCNA and MCSE in server 2008 but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble to get these certifications as I would have to re-certify as they eventually expire. One of my teachers has been pushing me to get my MCSE. So is it worth the trouble to get and maintain these certifications?

120nm4n · 10-06-2009, 02:18 PM

The Microsoft exams don't expire, though they do age, and you will (likely) need to upgrade eventually, but they are worth it if that is the area you want to specialize in. With CCNA, etc., they are a great way to step up your knowledge. Since Cisco offers a bunch of different paths, you can tailor it to your job / career. So instead of renewing your CCNA every couple years, you might want to get your CCNP, or another professional level cert. Then eventually, maybe get your CCIE.

Long story short, if the certifications follow your intended career goals, then they are most likely going to be worth it. You won't have to keep renewing them, just getting more as your knowledge grows.

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the good answer. I just wish that the nearest test center was not a 4hr. round trip. There used to be a test center at my local community college but they closed down a few years ago due to not making enough money off of the tests to stay open.

dynamik · 10-06-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 120nm4n

Long story short, if the certifications follow your intended career goals, then they are most likely going to be worth it. You won't have to keep renewing them, just getting more as your knowledge grows.

Exactly. The most difficult and daunting aspect of the entire process is just getting up to speed. When you're starting from scratch, a CCNA and/or MCSE is an enormous undertaking. Once you get there though, you'll be fine as long as you keep up with things. It's basically maintenance after that (until you decide to pony-up and go after a CCIE or something

).

HeroPsycho · 10-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exampasser

I have thought about getting my CCNA and MCSE in server 2008 but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble to get these certifications as I would have to re-certify as they eventually expire. One of my teachers has been pushing me to get my MCSE. So is it worth the trouble to get and maintain these certifications?

A few distinctions.

MCSE does not expire. MCITP according to Microsoft will expire, but to recertify, you simply need to pass the applicable MCTS exams for the new versions of the product you're working with. For example, I should only need to take the replacement for 70-236 when I recertify for MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator for Exchange 2010. You only need to do that before mainstream support ends for the version you are certified in. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than fair and a reasonable workload to keep my certification updated.

You cannot get MCSE in Windows 2008. It is covered by the MCITP track.

veritas_libertas · 10-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeroPsycho

A few distinctions.

MCSE does not expire. MCITP according to Microsoft will expire, but to recertify, you simply need to pass the applicable MCTS exams for the new versions of the product you're working with. For example, I should only need to take the replacement for 70-236 when I recertify for MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator for Exchange 2010. You only need to do that before mainstream support ends for the version you are certified in. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than fair and a reasonable workload to keep my certification updated.

You cannot get MCSE in Windows 2008. It is covered by the MCITP track.

I would think that will make the MCITP more valuable in the future then.

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

A few distinctions.

MCSE does not expire. MCITP according to Microsoft will expire, but to recertify, you simply need to pass the applicable MCTS exams for the new versions of the product you're working with. For example, I should only need to take the replacement for 70-236 when I recertify for MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator for Exchange 2010. You only need to do that before mainstream support ends for the version you are certified in. As far as I'm concerned, that's more than fair and a reasonable workload to keep my certification updated.

You cannot get MCSE in Windows 2008. It is covered by the MCITP track.

Thanks for the clarifications, as I am not familiar how the Microsoft certification process works.

networker050184 · 10-06-2009, 04:32 PM

They are completely useless. We all just enjoy wasting our time!

This is probably not the best place to ask if certs are worth it if you are looking for an unbiased answer. It is a certification forum after all. To answer your question they are definitely worth it if you plan to work with these technologies.

Aldur · 10-06-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamik

It's basically maintenance after that (until you decide to pony-up and go after a CCIE or something

).

Even the IE level certs are a walk in the park

But I'll have to agree with everybody here, certs are very very valuable and having to re-cerfity keeps your skills fresh and up to date. And probably the biggest value certs have is that they will get you that interview that otherwise you would have been passed up for.

It's really a win-win situation, you keep your skills up to date and having the certs gets you the interviews. Can't go wrong there

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

They are completely useless. We all just enjoy wasting our time!

This is probably not the best place to ask if certs are worth it if you are looking for an unbiased answer. It is a certification forum after all. To answer your question they are definitely worth it if you plan to work with these technologies.

Lol I was expecting someone to say that.

veritas_libertas · 10-06-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldur

Even the IE level certs are a walk in the park

But I'll have to agree with everybody here, certs are very very valuable and having to re-cerfity keeps your skills fresh and up to date. And probably the biggest value certs have is that they will get you that interview that otherwise you would have been passed up for.

It's really a win-win situation, you keep your skills up to date and having the certs gets you the interviews. Can't go wrong there

That is how I figure it. I only wish I had more time to study.

Aldur · 10-06-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veritas_libertas

That is how I figure it. I only wish I had more time to study.

I've got the time now just the lack of motivation to study like I use too. That and my ball-and-chain wants to spend more time together

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veritas_libertas

That is how I figure it. I only wish I had more time to study.

My main problem is that I don't even have a car to drive myself to the nearest test center lol (don’t normally need one though, as I don’t have a job and have only had 2 jobs in my life).
Also going for my bachelor's in Industrial Technology is somewhat time consuming. I'm glad I don't have to pay for the degree at least.

tpatt100 · 10-06-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldur

I've got the time now just the lack of motivation to study like I use too. That and my ball-and-chain wants to spend more time together

That is my problem was motivation. Earlier on in my career I was collecting certs due to my work but also because back then work was giving out free vouchers and training.

Turgon · 10-06-2009, 05:14 PM

I say yes, although responses here are not typical of everyone connected to IT as the membership has a vested interest in certification.

Other opinions aboud. Here is one interesting one. It's rather dismissive which is something of a concern if many people can jump to such conclusions based on personal experience..

Unmolested Truth Certification Schmertification: Why They Are Useless

rsutton · 10-06-2009, 05:39 PM

That dude holds some strong opinions which seem to be based on a very small perspective. I feel sorry for him.

dynamik · 10-06-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moron

The way I see, the question isn’t how many certifications you have, the question should be, why do you have so many certifications? Do you have something to prove? Are certifications the equivalent of a Porsche?

I'm a cert whore because I have low self-esteem. I'm the first to admit it.

He's right though. I should just put it all behind me and do something constructive, like whine about life on a blog.

Aldur · 10-06-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turgon

Other opinions aboud. Here is one interesting one. It's rather dismissive which is something of a concern if many people can jump to such conclusions based on personal experience..

Unmolested Truth Certification Schmertification: Why They Are Useless

Interesting read and I have to say that I agree with some of it and disagree with most of it.

It's true that just because someone is certified doesn't mean that they know their stuff. This can be from people who know the how to memorize book material but can't find their way out of a paper bag to save their life or somebody who dumps for the exam. From my experience it tends to be the later.

For the reason of dumping, certifications that require just a written test have become much less valuable. If it's possible to dump for a test then whose to say that everybody who passed the test hasn't done it? This is where the higher level lab based certifications come into play, such as a JNCIE or CCIE. It's just next to impossible to dump for an 8hr lab exam

At this point, even with the higher level certifications, you're just gonna get interviews from your certifications. And if you dumped to get your certs 99% of the time you will be found out and you will not get the job.

Certification is a great learning tool and can help you get your foot in the door and progress in your career because it's a learning tool. If you don't gain any knowledge from certification then what good is it? None at all.

Aldur · 10-06-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamik

I'm a cert whore because I have low self-esteem. I'm the first to admit it.

Admitting it is the first step to recovery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamik

He's right though. I should just put it all behind me and do something constructive, like whine about life on a blog.

I agree, lets all give up and cry about it online

tpatt100 · 10-06-2009, 05:54 PM

I think the people who say they are useless tend to be from the camp that has certs but have not seen any benefit from it so they will of course spout off that "the certs are useless". Then those people tend to get the most attention and attract people who already don't want to get certs but feel they have to in order to advance.

When the Government implemented the 8570 directive which required certain certs for certain roles there was a whole lotta griping from people I worked with.

exampasser · 10-06-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

For the reason of dumping, certifications that require just a written test have become much less valuable. If it's possible to dump for a test then whose to say that everybody who passed the test hasn't done it? This is where the higher level lab based certifications come into play, such as a JNCIE or CCIE. It's just next to impossible to dump for an 8hr lab exam

The problem with the lab based certifications is that it makes it more difficult for people like me to get to the locations where lab based certifications would be offered. Too bad there are not mobile labs for lab based certification testing.

RobertKaucher · 10-06-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exampasser

The problem with the lab based certifications is that it makes it more difficult for people like me to get to the locations where lab based certifications would be offered. Too bad there are not mobile labs for lab based certification testing.

These are coming. MS has already deployed a few of these for the server 2008 track. I have not taken any myself, though. They use essentially the same technology as MSDN/technet virtual labs. My understanding is that they give you a problem such as Join computer x to this domain using these credentials and delegate controle of this OU to employee y etc, etc. You go throught he steps of actually performing the tasks. There will still be multiple guess, but the bulk of the exam is hands on. This is different than the 70- series that had sims (click here, click there) that did not allow you to perform the task in the actual OS/environment. They forced you to use a specific method, using a specific tool.

83-640 versus 70-640: Which MCTS: Windows Server 2008, Active Directory Configuration is which? The Transcender Team Weblog

It would be nice to get the feedback from those who have taken an 83 series exam...

Also, I have met so many people who have the attitude expressed in that blog and not just about certification. The general translation of such whining is "It's worthless because I failed at it or am too lazy to do it myself."

exampasser · 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

These are coming. MS has already deployed a few of these for the server 2008 track. I have not taken any myself, though. They use essentially the same technology as MSDN/technet virtual labs. My understanding is that they give you a problem such as Join computer x to this domain using these credentials and delegate controle of this OU to employee y etc, etc. You go throught he steps of actually performing the tasks. There will still be multiple guess, but the bulk of the exam is hands on. This is different than the 70- series that had sims (click here, click there) that did not allow you to perform the task in the actual OS/environment. They forced you to use a specific method, using a specific tool.

83-640 versus 70-640: Which MCTS: Windows Server 2008, Active Directory Configuration is which? The Transcender Team Weblog

It would be nice to get the feedback from those who have taken an 83 series exam...

Also, I have met so many people who have the attitude expressed in that blog and not just about certification. The general translation of such whining is "It's worthless because I failed at it or am too lazy to do it myself."

Thanks for the info. That will improve the value of their exams and help ensure employers that people that have earned the certification ACTUALLY KNOW how to apply the knowledge in the exam objectives.

networker050184 · 10-06-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertKaucher

The general translation of such whining is "It's worthless because I failed at it or am too lazy to do it myself."

I think that sums that blog post up nicely.

tpatt100 · 10-06-2009, 06:53 PM

I think if you live within 100 miles of my location you should abandon college and certifications, in fact I think you should take up video games full time.

Not like I want the competition or anything.....