+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 First 123 45 Last
Results 51 to 75 of 116
  1. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by it_consultant View Post
    Learning the intricacies of OSPF IS learning general routing.
    How many CCNA's do you know that know the intricacies of ospf?
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  2. SS -->
  3. Senior Member phantasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West by God
    Posts
    990

    Certifications
    CCNP:R&S, CCDA
    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    How many CCNA's do you know that know the intricacies of ospf?
    I know a CCNA who didn't know what telnet was.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  4. Security Nut NightShade03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,379

    Certifications
    RHCSA, JNCIA-Junos, CCNA, CCENT, MCSA (2K3), MCP, Security+, Network+, A+
    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    I know a CCNA who didn't know what telnet was.
    Hire that guy lol
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  5. was here.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,504
    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    I know a CCNA who didn't know what telnet was.
    Pfft. Use SSH or the console!
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  6. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,882

    Certifications
    CCNA:Security,BCNE,Exchange 2007, ITIL
    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by networker050184 View Post
    No thats learning one single routing protocol.
    Routing protocols and routing kinda go hand in hand. The concept of routing is not terribly difficult, there is no expert in routing who does not know at least one routing protocol to a high degree of competency. There is a reason why right after learning what a layer three route you start learning about routing protocols.

    This is beside the point. If you want to work in network routing you must know OSPF. Sort of like if you want to be Linux Server admin you have to work with the common linux servers. Which is not Ubuntu. Ubuntu is great because it is easy and highly portable but it does not give you relevant experience to being a Linux admin.

    OSPF is not focused on in CCNA, but it should be. I have never used EIGRP in an enterprise setting. In the real world we deal with ISPs that use Juniper routers, customers that have watchguard firewalls, etc.

    BGP should be brought up as well.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  7. Senior Member phantasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West by God
    Posts
    990

    Certifications
    CCNP:R&S, CCDA
    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by it_consultant View Post
    OSPF is not focused on in CCNA, but it should be. I have never used EIGRP in an enterprise setting. In the real world we deal with ISPs that use Juniper routers, customers that have watchguard firewalls, etc.

    BGP should be brought up as well.
    I'm reading CCNP:ROUTE right now and honestly, the depth that book goes into for OSPF and the BGP coverage is good for the CCNP. That level of detail is not needed in the CCNA. Not only is it not needed, but it would be overkill for most people. For example, I know a lot of people have issues with subnetting and route summarization. Try getting them to focus on mutli-area OSPF as well as BGP. Not a good idea.

    Also, I have worked with EIGRP in an enterprise environment. On the ISP side, which I've also worked we deal with OSPF and BGP more than not. The CCNA is an introduction certification. The CCNP is more in depth and is right where it should be in my opinion.
    Last edited by phantasm; 07-29-2010 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Grammar.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  8. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11,649

    Certifications
    CCNA, CCNP, CCIP, JNCIA-JUNOS, JNCIS-SP, JNCIP-SP, MCA200
    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by phantasm View Post
    I'm reading CCNP:ROUTE right now and honestly, the depth that book goes into for OSPF and the BGP coverage is good for the CCNP. That level of detail is not needed in the CCNA. Not only is it not needed, but it would be overkill for most people. For example, I know a lot of people have issues with subnetting and route summarization. Try getting them to focus on mutli-area OSPF as well as BGP. Not a good idea.

    Also, I have worked with EIGRP in an enterprise environment. On the ISP side, which I've also worked we deal with OSPF and BGP more than not. The CCNA is an introduction certification. The CCNP is more in depth and is right where it should be in my opinion.

    Agreed 100%

    The details of OSPF are not needed for basic routing knowledge. First you need to learn IP forwarding, then distance vector and link state theories and then you can get to just the basics of specific protocols.

    That is not saying never learn it, but if you dumped sham links on someone who barely knew the basics of routing it would be over their head. Could they understand it? Sure, but thats kind of like reading a book starting with the last chapter. You can get it down eventually but wouldn't it have been so much easier to start on the first chapter?

    Just because your real world doesn't include EIGRP that doesn't mean its not used out there. We use EIGRP on the corporate side and OSPF on the ISP side.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  9. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,882

    Certifications
    CCNA:Security,BCNE,Exchange 2007, ITIL
    #58
    I have nothing against EIGRP but for the fact that its not compatible with other routers. This does become an issue. Some Cisco routers don't even have EIGRP built in anymore.

    The point I was trying to make was not that CCNA is the be all of routing; but that if you want to become a routing expert, then it is necessary to spend some time on OSPF and BGP since those protocols are in wide use. You can cover the foundations of routing including the things you mention very quickly; I mean within a couple of hours or less. Maybe I just like to jump in and get my hands dirty (in a lab of course) more than other people. Perhaps knowing NSSA vs TSA is advanced; but I have heard a lot of complaints from network engineers that point out the weakness in OSPF knowledge within the junior network engineer ranks. So I recommend what I have learned from experience, you should learn more than you think you will need.


    Full Disclosure: I have my CCNA but I prefer Juniper routers and HP switches.
    Last edited by it_consultant; 07-29-2010 at 06:36 PM.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  10. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11,649

    Certifications
    CCNA, CCNP, CCIP, JNCIA-JUNOS, JNCIS-SP, JNCIP-SP, MCA200
    #59
    No one was talking about how to be a routing expert, routing was just an example.

    What we are talking about is how to learn something from the ground up. IMO the best way to learn is to start with the basics and work your way up. Regardless of the technology you are learning.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  11. Data Network Engineer filkenjitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    531

    Certifications
    CCNA Service Provider, CCNA: R&S, CCENT, CCT: R&S, MCP: 70-270, 70-290, MCDST, BCSA T1/T2, ETA CST & CNST, Ericsson MME Operation and Configuration
    #60
    In all my experience, Solaris is used the most in service provider networks. Lucent 5E, Nortel DMS, etc. All use Solaris as their base operating system.

    All the systems at my job nationwide use Solaris which is why I use OpenSolaris for learning at home.

    Solaris is the best Unix to learn if you want to make money from the skillset.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  12. SupremeNetworkOverlord Moderator Ahriakin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ::1/128
    Posts
    1,798

    Certifications
    CCIE #23276-Sec, JNCIE-Sec #105, TCSE #2343,MCSE 2003-Sec,LPIC-1
    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by knwminus View Post
    Survey says "Read the thread" and you may find you answer.
    When you see that kind of thread (no real link to the topic, 0 post user etc.) there's a good chance it's just a spam bot (usually trying to drop a link through their signature). Best to just report and ignore as it will likely (and this case was before I read the report email, thanks btw) be thrashed.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  13. Random Member docrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,687

    Certifications
    GSEC, GCFW, GCIA, GCIH, GWAPT, GAWN, GPEN, GCFE, GCFA, GMON, OSWP, SFCP, SnortCP, Sec+; expired: CCNA (R&S, Security, Wireless), WCNA
    #62
    In response to the original post, if you're going to learn Unix or Linux, I'd suggest using a platform that's very common in the corporate enterprise. This will most likely be either Red Hat Enterprise Linux (you can use CentOS which is pretty much a binary replica of RHEL and it's free), or go OpenSolaris, although in general I've seen Solaris lose its popularity over the years, especially with the recent Oracle takeover.

    When installing Linux, don't even bother running a GUI. Unless you're going to be working in shops that run Linux on the desktop (not very common), most server installations will be command-line only with some exceptions such as Oracle installs. CLI takes a little getting used to if you come from the Windows world because of the way the directory structures are laid out, etc., but a little persistence at home pays off. I recall my experience with this switchover years ago when I first started dabbling in the *nix world trying to learn OpenBSD (which you can download the installer ISO free now, although I like supporting them by buying an actual copy of the official media since their code is so rock-solid and stable). Enterprise Linux deployments will typically be a minimized install meaning none of the extra fluff (no X environment for a GUI desktop, non-essential applications, etc.) so it's well-worth learning the command interface environment. I would hardly consider a candidate who wasn't versed in the CLI. Ubuntu's nice and has gotten more polished over the years, but most job descriptions I see refer to server management. This means manipulating services, editing configuration files, verifying current system resource usage, tailing logs, etc., all using typed commands.

    As for the CCNA track, a solid networking background is essential in *nix environments. You'll get some if that working with *nix in general, but nothing beats knowing how routers and switches work at a fundamental level. While you could in theory deploy Linux / iptables-based firewalls (or pf or whatever else), in reality I see most shops running dedicated appliances for network infrastructure functions. It's good to know iptables and the like to secure hosts themselves, however. Even though the CCNA is Cisco-centric, it still provides a lot of core fundamentals which make it well-worth it in my book as it emphasizes concepts like subnetting, OSI model, access lists, and basic protocols which can heavily relate to the *nix world.

    While GNS3 is great for CCNA studies (and you can simulate quite a few things such as frame-relay environments and routing scenarios with a dozen routers), sometimes you need to involve real switches which GNS3 can't really simulate. You can buy old Cisco gear (like 1700 and 2950 models) off eBay for relatively cheap ... and it's real working Cisco hardware that you can actually get hands-on with, console in, connect the wrong type of cables, etc.. Nothing beats that. I say this as someone who teaches a good majority of the same CCNA material to co-workers. I use both GNS3 and real gear in my training / mentoring sessions. If you can spare $100 or a bit more, then second-hand equipment is your friend (although you may need to watch your electricity bill).
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  14. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,015
    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by docrice View Post
    In response to the original post, if you're going to learn Unix or Linux, I'd suggest using a platform that's very common in the corporate enterprise. This will most likely be either Red Hat Enterprise Linux (you can use CentOS which is pretty much a binary replica of RHEL and it's free), or go OpenSolaris, although in general I've seen Solaris lose its popularity over the years, especially with the recent Oracle takeover.
    Side note:

    I have considered doing the SCSA(S). Do you think Solaris' popularity decline would lower the value of this cert (and the other Sun certs) significantly? I thought that being purchased by Oracle would help to boast Solaris' popularity. . .
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  15. Random Member docrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,687

    Certifications
    GSEC, GCFW, GCIA, GCIH, GWAPT, GAWN, GPEN, GCFE, GCFA, GMON, OSWP, SFCP, SnortCP, Sec+; expired: CCNA (R&S, Security, Wireless), WCNA
    #64
    I work in a corporation that is predominantly Solaris in-house, but I used to work in the company's support team that deployed our company's server software at customer sites. When I first started, there were a lot of Solaris installs. As the years went by, it became increasingly obvious that Linux was becoming a more common choice among our customers.

    That said, there are environments which I think Solaris is still a clear winner, depending on applications used, existing SPARC / Sun x86 hardware, etc.. I'm personally a little biased against Solaris however since I learned the *nix world through Linux and OpenBSD and the commands are slightly different between the two and doing some things in Solaris annoy me. They're just really minor points in the overall scheme of things though and it just makes me a platform fanboy. That doesn't make Solaris any less of an OS, but in my view I've seen less talk about Solaris over the years compared to Linux.

    I don't know how the future of Solaris may turn out. Oracle might champion it, or it may fizzle out. I think there are still a lot of Solaris shops out there and perhaps the SCSA may be worth it. ZFS is one feature that makes Solaris stand out a lot. I think I saw some news articles indicating that Oracle might put more investment into integrating the OS with their software, etc., so it might continue to grow.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  16. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,015
    #65
    Interesting. Thanks for the follow up. How much *nix experience do you have by the way?
    Last edited by Bl8ckr0uter; 08-01-2010 at 11:19 AM.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  17. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by docrice View Post
    You can buy old Cisco gear (like 1700 and 2950 models) off eBay for relatively cheap ... and it's real working Cisco hardware that you can actually get hands-on with, console in, connect the wrong type of cables, etc.. Nothing beats that. I say this as someone who teaches a good majority of the same CCNA material to co-workers. I use both GNS3 and real gear in my training / mentoring sessions. If you can spare $100 or a bit more, then second-hand equipment is your friend (although you may need to watch your electricity bill).
    And for those with eBay-phobia, you can get a 2950G for $145. A bit pricey compared to eBay but working piece of mind is worth a few bucks. PM me if you want a link.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  18. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,015
    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by technique View Post
    Linux OR Unix would equip you with knowledge for becoming a system administration. CCNA is all about routers, switches and networks.

    I think you are generalizing it too much.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  19. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,882

    Certifications
    CCNA:Security,BCNE,Exchange 2007, ITIL
    #68
    Not really. System Administration is really specific to the server platform you work with. CCNA does not help much with Windows Administration, which is my main role.

    I think its a good thing, to know 2 technologies. However, knowing cisco does not help with linux/unix/windows and vica versa.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  20. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,015
    #69
    Quote Originally Posted by it_consultant View Post
    Not really. System Administration is really specific to the server platform you work with. CCNA does not help much with Windows Administration, which is my main role.

    I think its a good thing, to know 2 technologies. However, knowing cisco does not help with linux/unix/windows and vica versa.
    But the understanding of networking gained by studying for the CCNA is fundamental. A better networking understanding might make you a better admin.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  21. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,308
    #70
    I disagree as well. I think having at least CCNA-level knowledge is very beneficial for systems administrators. Your servers don't communicate via hopes and dreams.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  22. Senior Member phantasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West by God
    Posts
    990

    Certifications
    CCNP:R&S, CCDA
    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by dynamik View Post
    I disagree as well. I think having at least CCNA-level knowledge is very beneficial for systems administrators. Your servers don't communicate via hopes and dreams.
    I would agree with that. Although at my last job the whole dang IT department ran on hopes and dreams. We hoped the servers wouldn't fail and we dreamed that if they did, we could replace with them something from this decade. meh.
    Last edited by phantasm; 08-11-2010 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Grammar
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  23. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,882

    Certifications
    CCNA:Security,BCNE,Exchange 2007, ITIL
    #72
    Having more knowledge is preferable to having less. CCNA knowledge is good to have and will improve your career considerably. However, system administration and CCNA are fundamentally different skills.

    On the outset thinking "CCNA is really going to help me with systems admin" is just not correct IMO. CCNA will help with your job and making you a better employee but what we use in sysadmin roles is barely at the Network + level. In fact...I think the things that they teach in Network + is more applicable to sysadmins than CCNA is.

    Having said all that, getting the CCNA will never hurt you. If your going for a sysadmin job then taking the education track of the servers that are being used is step number one. I think the red hat professionals are in huge demand too, you may get more bang for your buck with that one.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  24. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,308
    #73
    Maybe I should have said systems engineering instead of systems administration to avoid a semantic argument. If you're doing design/planning, CCNA-level knowledge will make you better at your job.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  25. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,882

    Certifications
    CCNA:Security,BCNE,Exchange 2007, ITIL
    #74
    I use sysadmin and sys-engineer interchangeably, so I am not going to argue semantics. Based on my experience, the Linux professionals I work with use very little CCNA knowledge. They absolutely understand the fundamentals of networking, but if you start rattling off terms specific to CCNA (VLANs, bridging, routing, etc) their eyes will glaze over.

    The original question was whether or not one should pursue network engineering (CCNA stuff) or linux / unix administration. In order to become a linux / unix administrator you really have to know sendmail, kerberos, apache, mySQL, etc. Absolutely nothing in the CCNA - CCIE will prepare you for those skills.

    I am not trying to devalue the CCNA, I hold it and it is helpful to me in my job which includes no only sysadmin roles (my specialty is exchange) but some network engineering where applicable.

    For *nix admins the focus of your education should be on those things that people utilize linux servers for.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  26. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,015
    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by it_consultant View Post
    They absolutely understand the fundamentals of networking, but if you start rattling off terms specific to CCNA (VLANs, bridging, routing, etc) their eyes will glaze over.
    Vlans aren't specific to the CCNA, neither is routing. I would consider that to be something universal. Maybe this is just a difference of experience but most of the *nix engineers I know seem to be very well verse in networking.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 First 123 45 Last

Social Networking & Bookmarks