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  1. Matrix(Config)# Roguetadhg's Avatar
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    #26
    +1. At the end of the day if you are "Learning" and it's going to improve your performance at work later on down the track I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed.
    Because some employers are afraid you'll leave them.

    Then why the heck are you still sitting in that chair?
    Pays the bills. Full-Time employment & Steady employment. Gotta make sure I can get money to supply me with the nutritional supplement to learn.


    With that said - I do study at work.

    Everything is out of my pocket (Labs, Books, Time), not encouraged and told "You shouldn't study so much." I do study at work. However, Happiness with the employment is a different story - I'm studying to gtfo-asap.

    Studying linux has been more of a hassle because my department "Doesn't concern themselves with Linux beyond knowing how to pull up the ip address."
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  3. Knights of Ni kremit's Avatar
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by langenoir View Post
    What are your thoughts on studying while at work? For the purposes of this question let's assume that you're sticking to material that is directly relevant to your org.
    Ask. Don't assume anything. All IT managers from the CIO to my own boss are against studying of any kind at work. Their thoughts behind it is, it is their time and you are wasting it if you are doing anything but company related.
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  4. aka KitKatNinja
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    #28
    Studying and learning, while closely related, are two different things.

    At our place, we're learning all the time. However as for studying (being the IT manager) I allocate 1/2 day every week or fortnight for Continuing professional development (CPD), this includes studying for exams and/or qualifications (however the last couple of months it's been on hold while we find a replacement tech as we're short staffed).

    I'm a firm believer in CPD (like my old IT manager at the organisation where I got my first proper IT job) and succession management (like my current manager, who is the Business Manager at the place where I work now), so much so that I even set up a private prometric testing centre, a Certiport testing centre and ETA-i testing centre for both staff and external people to use for technical exams. As for secondary skills (including soft skills) we've even put some of our staff members thru qualification programs like Management, team leading, customer services and business & admin. Added to that, we've put some thru the office based exams.

    So there are organisations out there that invest in staff
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  5. Senior Member
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    #29
    Is your work mostly proactive or reactive? Does your boss delegate or micromanage? Those two questions weigh in heavily here. If you work at a service desk taking 60 calls per day, or your boss is always watching you...yeah...you probably don't study at work.

    I do, and it's encouraged. It makes me better at my job.
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  6. Senior Member nosoup4u's Avatar
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ehnde View Post
    Is your work mostly proactive or reactive? Does your boss delegate or micromanage? Those two questions weigh in heavily here. If you work at a service desk taking 60 calls per day, or your boss is always watching you...yeah...you probably don't study at work.

    I do, and it's encouraged. It makes me better at my job.
    Pretty much what I'm gathering as well. My boss is in Houston, I'm in Seattle supporting 300 customers in Wash and Canada.

    I brought it up earlier this year when I asked for tuition reimbursement for WGU and he said "As long as I never get a call from your customers study all you can at work."

    I've meet the guy in person twice a year for my review and for our yearly group hug in Houston.

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  7. Matrix(Config)# Roguetadhg's Avatar
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    #31
    ^

    Continuing development has gotten me better at my job. I'm sure everyone can use a little bit of gease around the troubleshooting wheels once in a while.

    For me, the reason why I don't get called on it -as much- is because Every ticket gets cleared out. As I work on tickets, there's not a problem! I would definitely say if I didn't do my work that would be a different story. That, to me, is completely understandable.
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  8. Senior Member
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    #32
    Depends on where you work.
    some bosses will see that you are studying to get new job.
    studying and learning are two different things.
    i'm too busy at work to study, But if issue comes up I work thru the problem and then may spending extra time learning something new that will help me fix problem faster.
    usually it is focused learning on the subject I need to do my job better.
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  9. ABL - Always Be Labbin' Iristheangel's Avatar
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    #33
    My old job used to let me study all the time while I was there but my current job is a lot busier and I rarely have downtime to study during the 8 hour business day. I try to show up extra early to study before work and use most of my lunch to study if I can. My new job makes balancing certifications, work, and school a bit more challenging to say the least but it's worth it. I'm getting my hands on ISE, CUCM 9, Presence, ASAs, WAN, 2951s, 3750s, ASRs, 2960s, etc. Pretty much all the new and hot technologies so I'm learning while at work
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  10. Member
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    #34
    Wow, so many responses, and I've been busy with well, work, ha.

    I've honestly never had a problem with it in the past, but I just joined a company where I want to do well and there is A LOT of stuff that is over my head. I've always tried to schedule the first hour of every day to studying things that are directly related to my job even if I'm not testing.

    I got my CCNA 3 years ago and have used it very little. Last job was a Sonicwall shop, new job is all Cisco again. So I see studying for my CCNA Security and maybe some Data Center (Nexus) courses because it directly ties into what I am tasked to maintain. Now if I wanted to learn Citrix, which we do not use, that should be done in my offtime.

    I've always had a problem with this idea that it's not being productive or that it would even be considered downtime because well it's not like many employers train you, especially in this field. If something is broke that absolutely needs to be fixed this very second, then sure that takes priority. But if there is an issue that can wait an hour I'll put it off.
    Last edited by langenoir; 12-04-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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  11. Member
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CISPhD View Post
    I work as a manager within my department. When I'm budgeting for the following year's financial and personnel requirements, I include a 15% buffer in all projects for the assumption that at least 1 hour of my staff's day (NOT their lunch) should be dedicated to their professional career advancement. Whether it is to study more about what they are working on now, or to study what they want to be "when they grow up". Assigning my engineers time to study with on the job training is an investment in their ability, and subsequently an investment in my company. Employees who are engaged and learning new materials are happy employees. Happy employees stick around longer. The longer an employee sticks around, the less money I have to commit to employee turnover, spin up, rebuilding lost "tribal" knowledge, etc... I think you can see where I'm headed with this.

    If you don't have an opportunity to study FREQUENTLY... you're employer isn't really invested in you. That being said, if your employer isn't invested in you, and you aren't happy doing what you're doing... Then why the heck are you still sitting in that chair?
    Well put CISPhD!
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  12. Senior Member
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    #36
    Not a chance in hell. I've been apart of several projectized service transitions and there is never enough time in the day for anything.
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  13. Self-Described Huguenot blargoe's Avatar
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    #37
    I've found that I have moved up in position, there is less opportunity for "downtime" study and it is less acceptable in general. I have been lucky enough to be strategic with the training courses and projects that I have worked on in the past few years that matched what I wanted in certification/experience, though.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 10/27/2017 - Passed Microsoft 70-410 (one exam left for MCSA 2012)
    Working on: MCSA 2012 upgrade from 2003 (to heck with 2008!!), MCSA 2016 upgrade, more Linux
    Thinking about: VCP6-CMA, AWS Solution Architect (Associate), Python, VCAP6-DCD (for completing VCIX)
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  14. Not IT n00b dave330i's Avatar
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by blargoe View Post
    I have been lucky enough to be strategic with the training courses and projects that I have worked on in the past few years that matched what I wanted in certification/experience, though.
    Similar to what I'm going through at my new job. I need to know just about everything VMware offers.
    2017 Certification Goals: Fun filled world of AWS
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  15. Data Network Engineer filkenjitsu's Avatar
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    #39
    I have no time to study! I have a long list of tasks I must get done all the time at work. I study at home every night though.
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  16. Alphabet Souper j23evan's Avatar
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    #40
    I'm at work right now... and studying... ... =D
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  17. Network Security tpatt100's Avatar
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    #41
    I have ran into problems a long time ago when studying at work. I had a coworker doing the same thing as I was which was going to school. Problem was I studied when I could but I did not EXPECT to be able to study at work. My coworker? He would try and get an assignment done at work and we would get a ton of calls and actually blame work for not being able to get his assignment done.....
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  18. Senior Member coreyb80's Avatar
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by YFZblu View Post
    In my current position I have a significant amount of downtime, and I do use it to study.
    Same here. I'm presently studying for my A+ to test next month.
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  19. Connection Overlord f0rgiv3n's Avatar
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    #43
    "If you're not moving forward, you're falling backward"

    If I don't feel like my job is challenging me enough to move me forward I have to supplement my work with certs/studying. And at that point I have enough downtime to study. Also, I have not had a boss yet that says "no" to me wanting to better myself as an employee.
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  20. Senior Member
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by blargoe View Post
    I've found that I have moved up in position, there is less opportunity for "downtime" study and it is less acceptable in general. I have been lucky enough to be strategic with the training courses and projects that I have worked on in the past few years that matched what I wanted in certification/experience, though.

    Ive actually more often found the inverse to be true. As I've moved up Ive often been allotted more time to study. I attribute it to a few things:

    1. As a senior (or more senior) admin, I expect and am expected to be the escalation point and am held more responsible/accountable for issues. Therefore, I damn sure better know how its deployed, how it works, how to find what went wrong and how to fix it.
    2. Since the senior admins are generally working on projects, escalations and other long running issues, most of the day-to-day tasks are farmed out to junior admins. Therefore my work load tends to fluctuate more than when I was a junior admin. Ultimately, while my total work load as a whole may be greater, the work load on any given day does tend to be less than that of a junior admin's day most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by kremit View Post
    Ask. Don't assume anything. All IT managers from the CIO to my own boss are against studying of any kind at work. Their thoughts behind it is, it is their time and you are wasting it if you are doing anything but company related.
    If a company took that stance with me, I would not be at that job for very long. Sorry but whether Ive allowed you to use my credentials in your vendor-partner status or not, the company benefits from having a well educated, trained and credentialed employee and I find the idea that time spent learning anything even only marginally job related is time wasted to be a joke. If you arent going to provide me adequate time to maintain those credentials then I would just as soon let them lapse (or not tell you that they'd been renewed) then allow you to continue to use them to your advantage; you have no business reaping the benefits of something I earned/maintained on my own time.

    I can think of only 1 field that truly "requires" any credential for continued employment: anything that falls under DOD 8570. And for that I suppose the argument could go that you need to maintain the credential on your own time or you'll lose your job. On the other hand, if you dont maintain the credential on your own time then the company is left down an employee.

    This could be quite unexpected too since the company cannot require hard-evidence on the status/progress of your CPE's/renewal if its not part of your goals and if they make it part of your goals then it becomes part of your job and thus something that should have time allotted during your working hours to complete.

    Bottomline, if you're OK with someone working for you losing a particular credential then I guess you'll have no problem with losing someone with that credential as an employee.



    I firmly believe all of the above stands true even for those earning and/or maintaining certifications not directly related to an employee's job description as the company will still see benefits from this. Im a perfectly good example of that. Im a network admin but I maintain my windows certifications and will soon be working on my RHCSA. Although maintaining my windows certifications and earning my RHCSA are not required in my current role the company has benefited tremendously from the fact that I know and understand the OS side.

    I cant tell you how many times I've had things escalated to me for exactly this reason: the OS team couldnt get the the Network team to understand they're requirements or vice-versa and it was sent to me as a dual-skilled tech to make it all work and play nice together.


    Quote Originally Posted by CISPhD View Post
    I work as a manager within my department. When I'm budgeting for the following year's financial and personnel requirements, I include a 15% buffer in all projects for the assumption that at least 1 hour of my staff's day (NOT their lunch) should be dedicated to their professional career advancement. Whether it is to study more about what they are working on now, or to study what they want to be "when they grow up". Assigning my engineers time to study with on the job training is an investment in their ability, and subsequently an investment in my company. Employees who are engaged and learning new materials are happy employees. Happy employees stick around longer. The longer an employee sticks around, the less money I have to commit to employee turnover, spin up, rebuilding lost "tribal" knowledge, etc... I think you can see where I'm headed with this.

    If you don't have an opportunity to study FREQUENTLY... you're employer isn't really invested in you. That being said, if your employer isn't invested in you, and you aren't happy doing what you're doing... Then why the heck are you still sitting in that chair?
    Where do you work? Are you hiring? Can I come work for you?

    Seriously though CISPhD, this is awesome and Im sure you have some really happy employees as a result of your investment in them!

    If the company isnt invested in you, why should you invest your time, experience and certifications in the company?
    Last edited by apr911; 12-10-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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  21. Senior Member
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    #45
    I am in a unique situation as an instructor for the US Army. I have to study to improve myself and become a better instructor. I am basically given free reign to study whatever I want as long as it is related to a course that we have in our section. But even when I worked at a Helpdesk for the Army I encouraged my subordinates to study as much as they could as any studying done directly benefits the military long-term and themselves when they get out.
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