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  1. Senior Member
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    #1

    Default Salary Increase discussion during End year review

    As the title says what is the best way to go about this? for my particular circumstance we have been given multiple extensions until the contract re-compete sometime in may. positions that weren't filled were cut during this last extension we went through. Fixed price contract. i want to get into market value for my position which would be an extra 10-13k. i'm also the only Lead on the engineering staff in the vulnerability domain and transitioned my old project and about to succesfully finish another highly visible project.

    i guess what i'm trying to get at is, is there a certain way to go about asking or is just being upfront and blunt with what you want? i mean worst answer they could say no but wanted to get some input from others.
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  3. Senior Member yoba222's Avatar
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    #2
    I don't see any chance of a salary bump on a temporary contract, but my opinion isn't well qualified since I've only worked at one contract position before. I left because the salary was too low and they were okay with me leaving rather than renegotiating. But again, my experience is really limited so maybe my pessimism is unwarranted. I'm curious to see how others weigh in on this.
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    #3
    ^^Agreed.

    they will only pay you if you submit your 2-week notice AND you are irreplaceable.

    Other than that.... not gonna happen.
    (but no harm asking)
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    #4
    There's a lot missing, you sort of screw around then jump into contract re-competes.

    1) Corporate or government?
    2) How many option years remaining?
    3) How many options years funded for?
    4) Is that re-compete in May the absolute finale of the contract or is that when the people paying the bill start re-competing?
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by EANx View Post
    There's a lot missing, you sort of screw around then jump into contract re-competes.

    1) Corporate or government?
    2) How many option years remaining?
    3) How many options years funded for?
    4) Is that re-compete in May the absolute finale of the contract or is that when the people paying the bill start re-competing?
    Goverment contracting. was a 5 year contract but that's over hence the continuous extensions. my company has a strong foothold at this particular agency for over 10 years and the customer is happy with us staying, and i do see the company in great position to win the recompete
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    #6
    Make a list of your accomplishments and what you are doing that is above and beyond. Anyone can do your job, show them what makes you better than everyone else.
    Make giving you a raise justifiable.
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  8. Senior Member TeKniques's Avatar
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    #7
    If you're not an FTE the smart move would be to just polish up your resume and send it out. You'll get the biggest salary bump by changing companies if it's the right fit assuming you live in an area that offers opportunity. I've never been a fan of having to negotiate a pay raise; if you really have to do that then whoever you're working for doesn't think you're worth it to begin with or they're taking advantage of you. This becomes even more evident if they all of a sudden have the money for you after you ask for it.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Z0sickx View Post
    Goverment contracting. was a 5 year contract but that's over hence the continuous extensions. my company has a strong foothold at this particular agency for over 10 years and the customer is happy with us staying, and i do see the company in great position to win the recompete
    I'm going to assume federal, as opposed to state or local.

    You may or may not know but what type of contract was this, firm-fixed-price? Time-and-materials? Cost-plus? Do you work for the prime or a sub? If a sub, is the sub paid the same way? The type of contract often lets you know how flexible negotiations can be. For instance, if it's a time-and-materials or cost-plus contract, the contractor will be happy to give you a raise, it's the govvie paying the bills that you need to get on your side since the cost will be passed straight on to them. A firm-fixed-price contract is harder to get a raise in, especially since many of them are built with price-breaks in later years with the expectation of "efficiencies".

    One argument that's easy to make is that your familiarity with the agency and how it goes about its mission makes you more valuable than someone of equivalent skill straight off the street. Make the argument that your expertise isn't just technical, it's also "deftly weaving through the layers of bureaucracy to get things done" and that knowledge should be compensated for just as they would compensate for a technical skill.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EANx View Post
    I'm going to assume federal, as opposed to state or local.

    You may or may not know but what type of contract was this, firm-fixed-price? Time-and-materials? Cost-plus? Do you work for the prime or a sub? If a sub, is the sub paid the same way? The type of contract often lets you know how flexible negotiations can be. For instance, if it's a time-and-materials or cost-plus contract, the contractor will be happy to give you a raise, it's the govvie paying the bills that you need to get on your side since the cost will be passed straight on to them. A firm-fixed-price contract is harder to get a raise in, especially since many of them are built with price-breaks in later years with the expectation of "efficiencies".

    One argument that's easy to make is that your familiarity with the agency and how it goes about its mission makes you more valuable than someone of equivalent skill straight off the street. Make the argument that your expertise isn't just technical, it's also "deftly weaving through the layers of bureaucracy to get things done" and that knowledge should be compensated for just as they would compensate for a technical skill.
    1) yes its federal
    2) Firm-Fixed price
    3) Work for the prime
    4) they would likely have a hard time replacing me, i see literally the same position 30 mins away that paying 120k-130k. my skillset is very specific and there not many Engineers available with the Experience with the tool from an engineering standpoint & analyst. and i've already branched out and built a web scanner tool (fortify is a *****) successfully so far pending 1 more milestone.
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  11. Member cbdudek's Avatar
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    #10
    There are a lot of people who take the wrong actions when asking for a raise. Getting a raise takes effort on your part, and this is the best way to go about doing it.

    1. When you sit down with your boss, come up with achievable goals that you can both agree on and time frames for completion.
    2. Show the value to the organization by exceeding those expectations
    3. When you have your review at the end of the year, show those goals and how you exceeded expectations and ask for a raise.

    Now, if you haven't sat with your boss to outline your goals for the position or what your metrics are, then you can ask for a raise but you won't have much leg to stand on. You could also bring in metrics showing what you have completed and what you aim to complete in the next year to try to get one.

    In short, getting a raise in the workplace all revolves around value to the business and how you get along with others. If you can show value in both areas, then getting a raise is easier. If you just walk in and expect a 10k bump in pay with no documentation, metrics, or value to show for it, then you will probably be SOL.

    You say that they will have a hard time replacing you and that the same position pays 120k-130k near you. Sounds to me that you have some options. Show that value to the business by documenting all your duties and metrics and sit with your boss. Don't bring up the other position in your area to start with. Also, while you are at it, apply for the other position 30 minutes away.
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    #11
    The other thing that needs to be considered, is if the recompete will be "lowest price technically acceptable" LPTA or "best value". If it is an LPTA than get ready for some serious underbids to the contract, even from your own company. These type of contracts are brutal for contractors that have been on the contract for several years especially if the original contract was best value. Job cuts and reduction in pay is the only way the company can rebid in that type of environment, making your request for a salary increase even more difficult to commit to.

    The other part of a fixed firm contract is they get the same amount regardless of your outcomes. A pay raise does not add any value to the contract and only eats at their bottom line. I find looking for another position easier than asking for a raise.
    Last edited by Mitechniq; 12-29-2017 at 01:49 PM.
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    #12
    I've gotten several salary increases during temp positions. I didn't ask though, they just came to me and said I was doing an excellent job and gave me the increases.
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  14. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Z0sickx View Post
    As the title says what is the best way to go about this?
    Walking in to work wearing a suicide vest with dynamite strapped to it gives you great bargaining power with the boss to get that raise.

    Just kidding, what you really need to use is C4.

    On a more serious note, how does the client feel about you? While government contracts can't officially say they want such and such a person to be included with the contract, unofficially they do, and often this gives you great bargaining position. It all really boils down to how the client feels about you, while yes pretty much anyone is replaceable, getting someone new up to speed in the middle of a project with a tight deadline can be really detrimental to a schedule, especially a senior position. I'd tell them if they win the contract you want X amount of $ or your walking. Without some sort of threat of you leaving, you have no real leverage. They are not going to offer you any significant amount of $ out of the goodness of there heart.

    .
    Last edited by TechGromit; 12-30-2017 at 01:33 AM.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    Walking in to work wearing a suicide vest with dynamite strapped to it gives you great bargaining power with the boss to get that raise.

    Just kidding, what you really need to use is C4.

    On a more serious note, how does the client feel about you? While government contracts can't officially say they want such and such a person to be included with the contract, unofficially they do, and often this gives you great bargaining position. It all really boils down to how the client feels about you, while yes pretty much anyone is replaceable, getting someone new up to speed in the middle of a project with a tight deadline can be really detrimental to a schedule, especially a senior position. I'd tell them if they win the contract you want X amount of $ or your walking. Without some sort of threat of you leaving, you have no real leverage. They are not going to offer you any significant amount of $ out of the goodness of there heart.

    .
    Client i know loves our company and the team onsite. hes already told me i have job security because i'm the only engineer with particular set of skills (job security) he knows i work with A lot of various teams to accomplish the mission and i'm not the type to stop at 5, i will work extra long hours to stay on schedule and or get ahead of schedule

    i do feel like walking with an ultimatium in this situation would backfire they did pay for previous trip (had to give them a year or i pay it back) and generally speaking i do pretty much what i want and how i want it aka self managed. I do wish i kept better notes on all i have done because i do go out of my way to get things moving/pushed in the right direction. the only metrics i know of when it comes to my job is our my customers happy and how other managers i interact feel about me/ how my boss feels about me. My immediate supervisors sits next to me so he knows my actiivites

    thanks for all the advice for everyone posting! I at least have a sense of direction of how i want to go about doing it
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Z0sickx View Post
    1) yes its federal
    ...
    4) they would likely have a hard time replacing me, i see literally the same position 30 mins away that paying 120k-130k. my skillset is very specific and there not many Engineers available with the Experience with the tool from an engineering standpoint & analyst. and i've already branched out and built a web scanner tool (fortify is a *****) successfully so far pending 1 more milestone.
    Well, if this is true,
    then i agree with th other posts here:

    ~ASK them for the raise.
    ~Have a list of of the milestones/accomplishments.

    ~Expect them to give you a lame reason WHy they can't pay you more.

    At the same time... Get another Job offer.

    When the time comes.... Submit your 2-weeks.
    Now the real negotiating begins...
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  17. Senior Member nosoup4u's Avatar
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TeKniques View Post
    I've never been a fan of having to negotiate a pay raise; if you really have to do that then whoever you're working for doesn't think you're worth it to begin with or they're taking advantage of you. This becomes even more evident if they all of a sudden have the money for you after you ask for it.
    So much truth, been my experience every time I've given my two weeks, and I just say you should have when you could have.
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  18. Senior Member LordQarlyn's Avatar
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    #17
    This! And show in your accomplishments where you either added value or reduced costs.
    These days time in the position isn't enough to get any but a marginal raise at best, and government contracts often have fixed salaries anyway.

    One's best chance for getting a raise with their current employer is showing how they accomplished more. If you done this, can document it, that would improve your chances at getting a raise, assuming the contract you are on has the funds for it.

    IF all else fails, and you are a star employee, then it may be time for you to move on to the next thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priston View Post
    Make a list of your accomplishments and what you are doing that is above and beyond. Anyone can do your job, show them what makes you better than everyone else.
    Make giving you a raise justifiable.
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  19. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Z0sickx View Post
    "....had to give them a year or i pay it back"
    You have to give a year notice or you have to pay them back what you earned for the last year? If this what you mean, I would consult a lawyer, I would seriously question the legality of such an agreement. Employers often have you sign employment contracts they know are unenforceable in court, betting on you will not call there bluff.

    From what little I read on the topic, it depends on what the termination clause was for. For example if the company paid for training SANS training at the tune of $6,000 for your position, you agree to work for them for 2 years, if you quit before then, you have to repay the company the $6,000 that company paid for your training. On the other hand, if the termination clause repayment is strictly punitive damages for your terminating employment before a specific date, generally they are unenforceable.

    Also these contracts tend to be something you sign for a set period of time, or contract period. Since they are re-bidding the contract, technically this is a "new" contract with the government, they can's very well say you must repay us X amount of money per day left on the contract, when it's a new contract to begin with. I would get legal advise on what your options are. At the very least, if there is absolutely no way out of the contract without giving them a years notice, then give them a years notice. They must still pay you at your old rate, and government contracts are usually much longer than a year, when the year is up, your gone. If they say ok we'll give you what you want before the year is up, I would demand far more in that case.



    Personally I would never sign such an agreement, legally binding or not.
    Last edited by TechGromit; 01-03-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    You have to give a year notice or you have to pay them back what you earned for the last year? If this what you mean, I would consult a lawyer, I would seriously question the legality of such an agreement. Employers often have you sign employment contracts they know are unenforceable in court, betting on you will not call there bluff.

    From what little I read on the topic, it depends on what the termination clause was for. For example if the company paid for training SANS training at the tune of $6,000 for your position, you agree to work for them for 2 years, if you quit before then, you have to repay the company the $6,000 that company paid for your training. On the other hand, if the termination clause repayment is strictly punitive damages for your terminating employment before a specific date, generally they are unenforceable.

    Also these contracts tend to be something you sign for a set period of time, or contract period. Since they are re-bidding the contract, technically this is a "new" contract with the government, they can's very well say you must repay us X amount of money per day left on the contract, when it's a new contract to begin with. I would get legal advise on what your options are. At the very least, if there is absolutely no way out of the contract without giving them a years notice, then give them a years notice. They must still pay you at your old rate, and government contracts are usually much longer than a year, when the year is up, your gone. If they say ok we'll give you what you want before the year is up, I would demand far more in that case.



    Personally I would never sign such an agreement, legally binding or not.
    sorry let me give contexts...they paid for training for me, that amount i would have to pay baack if i left early...if its because Of contract didn't win thats a different story
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    #20
    It's not unusual for a company to require an employee to commit to staying a certain amount of time or be required to pay back the costs of training. In practice, they typically take it out of your last paycheck and/or any vacation time you're cashing in and then forego the rest, unless it's a large amount.
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