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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by gespenstern View Post
    This country is doomed for not understanding economics 101, starting with California. And New York.
    Why do you feel this way? If a mid-size company has a set budget for a position lets say 55k-67k depending on experience and the candidate asks for 80k. Don't think that this law means they have to take the person for 80k. Well either they need to be more transparent on the range so the interested candidates can apply or have their recruiting team ask what the person is looking for to see if the numbers work.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dmarcisco View Post
    Why do you feel this way? If a mid-size company has a set budget for a position lets say 55k-67k depending on experience and the candidate asks for 80k. Don't think that this law means they have to take the person for 80k. Well either they need to be more transparent on the range so the interested candidates can apply or have their recruiting team ask what the person is looking for to see if the numbers work.
    Bingo. If anything, it saves the potential employee time as well as the employer to find out if the pay will be suitable and it prevents the employee from getting ripped off by getting lowballed just because they happened to get paid less at their previous gig.
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Iristheangel View Post
    It actually shouldn't matter if the company it out-of-state. If they are hiring for operations in California, they still have to adhere to stay laws, regulations and taxes. That's normal. So even if the company's HQ is in Virginia, if they have an office in California and they're hiring for positions in that office, they still have to adhere to the laws of that state that they are doing business in if the positions are in that state.
    What I'm hoping for is if the HQ is in Virginia and they have an office in California and a position opens up in Virginia, they use the same job application system online in both Virginia and California making the salary history fields optional (with maybe a legal disclaimer about positions in CA) or the salary history fields completely removed from the application.
    Last edited by Priston; 01-02-2018 at 06:07 PM.
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Priston View Post
    What I'm hoping for is if the HQ is in Virginia and they have an office in California and a position opens up in Virginia, they use the same job application system online in both Virginia and California making the salary history fields optional (with maybe a legal disclaimer about positions in CA) or the salary history fields completely removed from the application.
    They won't. If the job is located in California, they follow the laws in that state. If the job is in another state, they don't have to
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    #30
    Yes, the employer must follows the laws of the state where the employee resides regardless of where the employer is based.

    However, as it has been pointed out, there are other ways to find the salary history of a person besides explicitly asking the person (e.g., the information is already in the public record, the person willfully discloses information without being asked, etc.). Using those methods are not forbidden by AB168.
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by dmarcisco View Post
    Why do you feel this way? If a mid-size company has a set budget for a position lets say 55k-67k depending on experience and the candidate asks for 80k. Don't think that this law means they have to take the person for 80k. Well either they need to be more transparent on the range so the interested candidates can apply or have their recruiting team ask what the person is looking for to see if the numbers work.
    Because like it or not, but it's a competition game, both between candidates and candidates vs employers. What do you think the employers are going to do? You think that they, unable to ask about the salary history, will use the candidate's skillset as a sole determinant of the pay?

    This law attempts to cripple the natural order and as many similar initiatives, such as minimal wage law, or non-discrimination laws, will end up hurting those it intends to protect, will advance outsourcing of all remotable jobs to 3rd world countries even more, same with automation with robots and algorithms replacing whiny humans everywhere where it's not outsourcable.

    Check out analyses/researches on this that will, I'm sure, pop up in several years, that will show, similarly to minimal wage laws effects, that life will become harder for skilled people with low wages history. That's my prediction and I'm pretty confident in this outcome.
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    #32
    As much as I support what this law is trying to do, I have to agree with @gespenstern. This law could very well end up costing California many high skilled jobs by outsourcing outside the US or jobs relocating to states that are more pro-employer.
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    #33
    So the high business taxes, cost of living, and real estate wasn't going to cause all the businesses to leave and high skill jobs to dry up but dear God... If an employer has to advertise the actual budgeted salary for a job and they can't low-ball someone based on how much their previous company ripped them off, that's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    Last edited by Iristheangel; 01-03-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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    #34
    Honestly, I've gotten screwed by the whole "you got paid this much at your last employer so you are getting paid this here" crap that I think this law is awesome. When I got hired at my current job, I got $10K more base than I got before and better bonuses. About a year in to the job, I found out that people were getting hired after me with less experience for $30K more. I took that to my managers and they pretty much told me that my salary was determined based on previous salary and they could never get approval for what I was asking for (a level playing field). I kept going up and it took me about a year and a half more, some strong arming, and a bit of an act of god to get a $50K bump and a BIG bump in bonus. It was in such a way that could not be easily repeated easily for others.

    My wife was facing a similar problem before this law. She was making well over 6 figures a job ago but took a BIG cut to work from home for a couple years. She is at that point where she was going to look for a new gig and in her field she should be making $150K easily with her skills and experience but w prior to this new law, she would be lowballed since she's making under six figures at her current gig. Thankfully, that's not going to be a worry anymore for our family.

    Paying someone a salary SHOULD be based on two factors: 1) the budget range the company has for that opening and 2) the skills that the candidate brings to the table. If a company wants to keep an employee, it shouldn't be about how much they made at their previous employer - this really isn't their business and it doesn't affect the kind of job they will be providing for the employer. As far as disclosing the range of salary they are hiring for, this is a good thing for them as well. As it is, most employers list benefits, perks, etc as part of their job advertisements to attract the best candidates and it costs money and time to interview. Companies can give a low ball range and probably save money on interviewing candidates who don't want to get paid that much but they'll definitely have less competition for that job. Likewise, those who want to attract a high number of quality candidates will give a higher range and get their pick of the best candidates. If a company wants to move to BFE to avoid this law or outsource to <insert random poverty-stricken country>, well... you get what you paid for and you won't necessarily have the best candidate pool there for high skilled jobs. We've seen how that's worked out in the past and well... lots of companies had to bring their operations back after having huge business impacting issues so I'm not worried about it.

    At this point, California continues to be a big market with a LOT of high skilled tech and executive jobs. It's still making money for the rest of the country with the highest GDP of all the states and still going up every year. It's not the end of the world and the sky isn't falling because a random person in another state doesn't like that law.
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Iristheangel View Post
    So the high business taxes, cost of living, and real estate wasn't going to cause all the businesses to leave and high skill jobs to dry up but dear God... If an employee has to advertise the actual budgeted salary for a job and they can't low-ball someone based on how much their previous company ripped them off, that's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iristheangel View Post
    Honestly, I've gotten screwed by the whole "you got paid this much at your last employer so you are getting paid this here" crap that I think this law is awesome. When I got hired at my current job, I got $10K more base than I got before and better bonuses. About a year in to the job, I found out that people were getting hired after me with less experience for $30K more. I took that to my managers and they pretty much told me that my salary was determined based on previous salary and they could never get approval for what I was asking for (a level playing field). I kept going up and it took me about a year and a half more, some strong arming, and a bit of an act of god to get a $50K bump and a BIG bump in bonus. It was in such a way that could not be easily repeated easily for others.
    Quoted for truth, and same here. Even at my current job they did the same thing. Thankfully the HR rep was (surprisingly) willing and able to use some creativity to get me at least at the bottom of what I had in mind, because the hiring managers really really liked me and she was willing to go to bat for me. But I would be at least $30k or so more than I'm at now if I didn't have to face this artificial salary limitations at my last two employers.

    There are certain type of people who are anti-anything gov or anti-any reg at all. They should find Somalia to their liking.
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    #36
    Does anyone think it's asinine for a law that makes it illegal to ask someone a specific question? Like if someone wants to ask a question shouldn't they at least be allowed to ask it without breaking a law? Maybe I'm missing something here?
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    #37
    There are plenty of other questions employers aren’t legally allowed to ask candidates during the interview. I really don’t have an issue with them not being allowed to ask about past salary history. The employer already holds more cards when it comes to negotiating salary and often demand that prospective employees give away their only leverage(past salary history) during salary negotiations. In my mind, a law like this helps preserve what little negotiation power an employee has left.
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by bhcs2014 View Post
    Does anyone think it's asinine for a law that makes it illegal to ask someone a specific question? Like if someone wants to ask a question shouldn't they at least be allowed to ask it without breaking a law? Maybe I'm missing something here?
    Its not about asking a question its about employers using your previous salary information as a bargaining chip against you. To many employers use the tactic we can't proceed until we know your previous salary information as if makes a difference because each company is different, the budget is different so you can't compare one salary to another because the variables are always different. If for example someone was making 55k at a smaller company or took a pay cut just to get experience and they apply at a large company which pays 95k for the same type of work. Some companies would say oh since you make 55k we can only offer you 65k but then again if someone was at a higher bracket making 83k they would offer 95k for the same job since its an "adequate raise".

    That whole approach is asinine. We are all paid to do a job it isnt for charity. If a company needs a certain set of skills they have to pay for those skills.
    Last edited by dmarcisco; 01-04-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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    #39
    I don't think anyone here ACTUALLY supports the practice of obtaining someone's prior salary history to determine job offers. I certainly don't. I just expect politicians to understand the cause and effect of these laws before pushing them through. It has nothing to do with being anti government.
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    As much as I support what this law is trying to do, I have to agree with @gespenstern. This law could very well end up costing California many high skilled jobs by outsourcing outside the US or jobs relocating to states that are more pro-employer.
    I don't see that as a bad thing. I was never a fan of the tech jobs all being concentrated in Silicon Valley since I would never move there due to the State looking like a legislative hellhole.
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    #41
    CA wants to be their own country and why they are being so weird. If that ever happened, they would be the worst country on the planet.

    While I think that there are some laws that they have that help, there are an equal amount that clearly show their arrogance at being a united state. I'm going to go watch superman now.
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    #42
    I agree, it's asinine that some took the time to make this a law. The way bills get passed it's such a long, involved, ridiculous process that I feel like the time could have been spent better. The answer is simple, just decline to answer the question. Or lie and give them some ridiculous amount if they want to play that game.

    When you get to a point in your career where you can negotiate your salary, you go in to an interview knowing what you want to make, what benefits you want, and what's important to you. When recruiters call, when I interview, etc. salary is going to come up, and I tell them what I want. Either it works or it doesn't. It's business, not a personal attack.
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBeret View Post
    I agree, it's asinine that some took the time to make this a law. The way bills get passed it's such a long, involved, ridiculous process that I feel like the time could have been spent better. The answer is simple, just decline to answer the question. Or lie and give them some ridiculous amount if they want to play that game.

    When you get to a point in your career where you can negotiate your salary, you go in to an interview knowing what you want to make, what benefits you want, and what's important to you. When recruiters call, when I interview, etc. salary is going to come up, and I tell them what I want. Either it works or it doesn't. It's business, not a personal attack.
    Sounds like a great idea until you come across a job that tells you that your salary history needs to be on the resume in order to be seriously considered or you lie and then sign a background request form that let's them inquire the validity of the information with your previous employers - like I've had to do for the last 3 jobs.

    Also... Given your position, why does it matter if there is a law to you given that you're either refusing to disclose or lying anyways?
    Last edited by Iristheangel; 01-04-2018 at 08:10 PM.
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    #44
    @Iris - Not saying I agree with that practice at all, but what about those who DO routinely lie about their previous salaries just to get a big bump? While interviewing for my current job, I was asked to provide my salary information as well to which I declined unless they agreed that my asking price was acceptable. Did I have to provide it? Nope. I could have politely declined and moved on. Got an offer for what I asked for + yearly bonus. Was it a pretty process? Nope, but I got the job and my desired salary.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    @Iris - Not saying I agree with that practice at all, but what about those who DO routinely lie about their previous salaries just to get a big bump? While interviewing for my current job, I was asked to provide my salary information as well to which I declined unless they agreed that my asking price was acceptable. Did I have to provide it? Nope. I could have politely declined and moved on. Got an offer for what I asked for + yearly bonus. Was it a pretty process? Nope, but I got the job and my desired salary.
    What about them? Go look on Indeed, Dice, etc. There are many jobs that won't even consider your resume and they plainly state it unless you agree to disclose your salary history on the resume. You don't get an interview or even a chance to decline this information if you don't provide it for many of these jobs. There are some jobs that let you get away with not stating it but not every one will and essentially it's a race to the bottom if you're forced to disclose it.

    Again, if your input is that you're not going to disclose it anyways or you will just lie, why do you care if there's a law stating you don't have to? It won't affect these people - it'll just make life easier for them as it's one less obstacle to have or lie to make to an employer in your eyes
    Last edited by Iristheangel; 01-04-2018 at 10:39 PM.
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    #46
    It should be a law in all states. No company should be asking for your salary history to "seriously consider you". That's ridiculous. Now, asking for your salary requirements, is acceptable. If they are willing to pay $200,000 for a position and your salary requirement says $150k, then too bad if they only offer you $150k. You should have known your worth
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    ... but what about those who DO routinely lie about their previous salaries just to get a big bump?
    If the HR people you are dealing with are not amateurs then they know the likely salary ranges for the types of jobs in the types of industries in a specific geographical area. It's part of the recruiter's job to know what people make everywhere. Giving an inflated (i.e., untruthful) salary history may get you removed from consideration for a first-round interview for being dis-reputable. That decision also goes in their file in case you decide to re-apply to the same org at a future date. Best to decline giving your salary history and, if you get an offer, negotiate your starting rate.
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    #48
    I know employers that ask prospects previous salary. I don't think they should be fined or go to jail for that. My current employer and recruiters I have worked with ask salary history. My current job I make 50% more than my last because I know my value and how to negotiate. If I was hiring someone I would ask previous salary just to get an idea about their value.

    Don't think we need more tax money going to stupid laws like this and more bureaucrats enforcing them. This is the type of law you might see in Soviet Russia not a capitalist system.

    Additionally, all arguments for this law ITT fail basic logic tests.
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by bhcs2014 View Post
    I know employers that ask prospects previous salary. I don't think they should be fined or go to jail for that. My current employer and recruiters I have worked with ask salary history. My current job I make 50% more than my last because I know my value and how to negotiate. If I was hiring someone I would ask previous salary just to get an idea about their value.

    Don't think we need more tax money going to stupid laws like this and more bureaucrats enforcing them. This is the type of law you might see in Soviet Russia not a capitalist system.

    Additionally, all arguments for this law ITT fail basic logic tests.
    Well it is California.

    I'm perfectly fine with it so long as it remains a State-imposed measure and not a one-size-fits-all Federal thing. At least when it's just individual States employers have the option of moving to someplace more business friendly.
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by bhcs2014 View Post
    I know employers that ask prospects previous salary. I don't think they should be fined or go to jail for that. My current employer and recruiters I have worked with ask salary history. My current job I make 50% more than my last because I know my value and how to negotiate. If I was hiring someone I would ask previous salary just to get an idea about their value.

    Don't think we need more tax money going to stupid laws like this and more bureaucrats enforcing them. This is the type of law you might see in Soviet Russia not a capitalist system.

    Additionally, all arguments for this law ITT fail basic logic tests.
    How would you feel if you made 25-50% less than your coworkers despite them being less knowledeable or skilled than you? Suddenly, making 50% more than what you did at your previous job doesn’t sound so great.
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