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  1. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #1

    Default And this is why I hate ALL recruiters

    I really try to give recruiters the benefit of the doubt every now and then but their soulless beings always disappoint me. A few weeks ago I came across that one job posting that stands out of the noise and make you got "Hmm...".

    Recruiter 1 pitches the role through LinkedIn. I am intrigued so I ask for compensation right off the bat. Given the 10-15 hits I receive on a weekly basis this is my gating. He replies with the number. The base was a substantial increase over my compensation, similar benefits, same industry; it's a specialization extremely in line with my expertise. I'm honest and tell him that I have been eternally disappointed by recruiters. He says he's ben in the game for 20+ years, specializes in critical high profile hires, blah blah blah, and give me more details on his relationship with the current client. I like what I hear so I ask him for a time to talk. Then he goes radio silent. It has been 2 weeks now.

    Recruiter 2 from another company pitches me the exact same role. Message seems canned so my BS radar goes off. I tell her that the roles does pique my interest, that another recruiter reached out and then ghosted me, but I was willing to hear more from her. She says that "given that another recruiter has already reached out to you on this position, it will be an overlap on my part. Will keep you posted on other suitable positions.” I get triggered and answer back indicating that this is an example on why I hate recruiters. I had to ELI5 that I never agreed to anything with previous recruiter and therefore her comment did not make any sense. She then replies with “send updated resume, your expected compensation, and your current one”. That is all I need to know to move on and add her to the wall of shame.

    Recruiter 3 and 4 reach out with same job. Immediately ignore them because of multiple typical red flags.

    Recruiter 5 reaches out. I tell him upfront I have received this exact same role from now 5 recruiters all claiming to be preferred vendors for the hiring company. I tell him sorry but coming off strong and that I am interested in the role but refuse to work with non-transparent agencies that give recruiters a bad name. He says he understands and even gives me names of people he has placed in the hiring company. I recognize two so he gets point in his favor. This guy seems like the real deal. I ask him about next steps if interested. He then tells me he got more info from the hiring manager and gives me this "Application security focus. Develops App Sec strategy, contributing to the broader security strategy." There’s a small problem: this role has zero to do with AppSec. I question him on this and he stands by it and says it came directly from the hiring VP. Weird. I then ask about next steps. He says that he “tried submitting someone today into the job portal but it said they weren’t accepting additional candidates, submissions may be resumed later. I’ll let you know what I hear”. I then go to the company’s portal directly and see that there’s no issue applying for that specific role. What the heck!

    At this point I’m losing all interest. You may ask, why I didn’t apply directly to the company? Well’ the Infosec leadership at this company came from my current company. I know that in the past they have reached out to my current leadership to inquire about candidates that work/worked for us and were looking to move over there. I’m not ready for that call to happen since I’m only in an exploratory phase to see if the role is a good fit so my hope was that a good recruiter could relay this to the hiring manager before a formal application is submitted.

    TLDR: Recruiter suck and always will!
    Last edited by cyberguypr; 06-26-2018 at 04:59 PM.
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    #2
    I don't post much on this forum; but I just logged in to say "wow". I've come across a few bad recruiters; but nothing like that.
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  4. Senior Member LordQarlyn's Avatar
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    #3
    I've never been successfully placed by a recruiting or staffing agency. Every time I've been contacted it always has fallen through. Every job I've gotten I've applied and managed to navigate the ATS or get past the HR filters, or, I got in direct contact with the hiring manager, often both. I've never had recruiters like that but neither have I had any success with them.
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  5. Went to the dark side.... Moderator networker050184's Avatar
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    #4
    Pretty typical. Don't take it personal. The company is their client not you.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
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  6. Reticulating splines... iBrokeIT's Avatar
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    #5
    ...but did you show them your CEH? Probably wouldn't have been ghosted if you did!
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    #6
    Good Luck. I hope things get better.
    Last edited by johndoee; 06-26-2018 at 05:12 PM.
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  8. Senior Member
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    #7
    Haha, good laugh!

    Also, direct applications all seem to be on taleo these days and it takes literally 30 mins of your time to go through it, not counting the time if you want to adapt your resume etc. The result is typically close to zero, i.e. it is a waste of time.
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  9. Senior Member E Double U's Avatar
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    #8
    I've only dealt with one recruiter that I felt was worth my time. Ended up landing me one of my favorite jobs throughout my career. That was my first time dealing with a recruiter so I wouldn't develop my negative view towards recruiters until years later.
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
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  10. Senior Member PCTechLinc's Avatar
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by iBrokeIT View Post
    ...but did you show them your CEH? Probably wouldn't have been ghosted if you did!
    That would only work if it's Revoked.
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  11. Senior Member scaredoftests's Avatar
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    #10
    Agreed!
    Never let your fear decide your fate....
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  12. Senior Member McxRisley's Avatar
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    #11
    I send all recruiters that I respond to the same message. Remote penetration tester in my area, 120K+ salary, non-negotiable. That gets rid of about 95% of them immediately. Of course I do this because I'm not really looking to change jobs but if something comes up that meets my criteria I "may" be interested.
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    #12
    If I had a nickel for every time a recruiter said "send me your resume and...", then radio silence...
    When you go the extra mile, there's no traffic.
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  14. Senior Member MalwareMike's Avatar
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    #13
    I dont know which one is worse, used car salesman or tech recruiter....
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  15. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #14
    OK, obligatory story of car salesmen. In the late fall/ early winter 2016 I was looking to buy a fun car, something I wanted to buy and certainly did not need (I told him this upfront). Went to see a left over new 2016 Mustang. Car was very nice. Advertised price was $35k. After I test drive the guy says price is $41k. I politely told him he was wrong and asked him to double check. He's a kid so I don't fault him, he had to go talk to the big guy for everything. Comes back saying the advertised price "was a mistake" but the would "do me a favor" and give it to me for $35k. Strike one. Next, I ask about the warranty. He says something that didn't make sense, like 20 months. Turns out they had to title the car for some reason and the warranty started counting a while ago. Strike 2.

    Finally, sensing more BS I purposely test him by saying I wanted to trade my daily driver (I had zero intention of doing this). Car is a near mint, low mileage German easily in the top 5% of similar cars in the region. The kid goes talks to the big kahuna and gives him the keys. After examining the car the kid comes to me and says kahuna offers $20k. Car was at least worth $30k in dealer trade-in, way more private party. I again ask him to double and triple check with kahuna because the number made zero sense. I reminded him that my car was the top trim in pristine shape with low miles. Kahuna then comes and starts "well, let me explain how cars work, they depreciate and are never worth what you pay...". Right then and there i loudly say 'STOP! Do I look 19? Do you patronize all your serious potential customers?" Kahuna's eyes opened wide as he wasn't expecting the backlash. I firmly said: "Last chance: is $20k your final offer?" He said yes, so I stood up, grabbed my keys and left. It was glorious seeing kahuna through my rear view mirror yelling and motioning me to please come back.

    I was so upset that the next day woke up early to go to the Chevy dealer down the road and ended up buying a Camaro from a superb salesman.

    TLDR: Most car salesmen, like recruiters, are the scum of the earth.
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    #15
    I just won't work with them anymore. They are ALL the same, regardless of what they tell you. Have a nice talk with them and never hear from them again. The only ones I talk to now are recruiters from within the company the job is for. The rest of them just waste incredible amounts of time.
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  17. Senior Member E Double U's Avatar
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberguypr View Post
    "well, let me explain how cars work, they depreciate and are never worth what you pay...".
    You just seemed like you needed some mansplaining. He was only trying to help
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
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  18. Senior Member Phalanx's Avatar
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by E Double U View Post
    You just seemed like you needed some mansplaining. He was only trying to help
    When a daddy cardealer and a mommy car owner love each other very, very much...
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NotHackingYou View Post
    If I had a nickel for every time a recruiter said "send me your resume and...", then radio silence...
    For me, what usually happens is that I tell the recruiter "send me your job description..." and then I get radio silence.
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    #19
    I hate recruiters they always do the same approach and once you are on their database there's no way out!.
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  21. Senior Member Nutsy's Avatar
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    #20
    These are my rules for dealing with recruiters:

    1) Internal recruiters for a company are usually good.
    2) Most solicitations from 3rd party companies are garbage.
    a) As paul78 mentioned asking for the job description, and any other specifics, usually kills the conversation.
    3) My resume is my resource. Recruiters ask for them so they can fill their "pipeline" with them. IE: I had a conversation with a former recruiter once who said they keep a matrix of resumes for each position. Thus, they have to have one for Jr/Mid/Sr for a give role at all times.
    4) Be skeptical at all times with recruiters.
    5) The end client is paying them, and the client is the customer. As a candidate, you are the resource.
    6) At the end of the day, the recruiter gets paid to fill a position. Thus, don't ever expect to get any big pay bump when going through a recruiter.
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    #21
    I am not here to stick up for recruiters, because they are a constant thorn in our collective sides, but these are all recruiters for the same role / company so it's hard to really count this as multiple strikes vs grouping them all together.

    I really loathe dealing with them though, my tactic has typically been when I get cold called I give them a number well above what I make or am looking for because it typically gets them to leave me alone immediately, or occasionally I'll get surprised and they'll say they can do it lol.
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  23. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #22
    I always been a recruiter hater, only reason I engaged them was becuase this is a $200k+ job. i would've thought at that level the usual games would not be an issue. Boy was I wrong.
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  24. Little Teapot LeBroke's Avatar
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    #23
    Recruiters are fine if they have you in mind for a specific role, and it's not a serious stretch (newly minted manager for an F500 director role).

    Ask for a JD, ask for salary, and if they don't line up with what you want, or can't provide it, tell them to pound sand.

    If they're hiring for a specific role, and it's a role you want, they're usually worth engaging. Definitely better than filling out applications on Taleo all day.

    Haven't had to really apply for a job in the last 3 job changes thanks to recruiters, so there's that. I just treat it like online dating and assume they're going to flake out on me, and the profile pic... job description is probably photoshopped.
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  25. Senior Member PCTechLinc's Avatar
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBroke View Post
    I just treat it like online dating and assume they're going to flake out on me, and the profile pic... job description is probably photoshopped.
    Haha, I love that.
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  26. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberguypr View Post
    Went to see a left over new 2016 Mustang. Car was very nice. Advertised price was $35k. After I test drive the guy says price is $41k.

    I think I would have walked when he told you it was 41k, when you said you liked it. If you really liked it would the price than be 43k? Loved it 45K?
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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