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  1. Junior Member
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    #1

    Default MCSA/MCSE 2003 Retirement

    Hi Guys,

    With the retirement of MCSA/MCSE 2000 this March (correct me if I am wrong), I was wondering when the MCSA/MCSE 2003 be next. Considering the "distance" between the two, would it end come 2011?

    I am asking this because of I am currently pursuing for my MCSA 2003 title. I am an exam away (70-291) for the said title. With that, I am eyeing for an MCSE 2003 title. What hinders me however, is the title might be retired just a few years before I've just finished it. I am afraid that I might be spending good money for a certification that would fizzle out in 3 years.

    Would it better if I have my eyes on the MCSA 2003 upgrade for Windows 2008 instead, and focus on other MCTS/MCITP exams to have its "MCSE 2008" version?

    Please share your sentiments, Thanks!

    By the way, I just passed 70-290 this morning
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  3. BOBBY_TABLES RobertKaucher's Avatar
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    #2
    You have plenty of time for this cert to be valid. Besides, if you get your MCSE 2003 you can take just one upgrade exam and get 3 certifications on Server 2008.

    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mc...8/default.mspx

    Another thing to consider is the stability of Server 2003. Companies are not going to stop neededing their 2000 servers supported just because MS retired that exam track. Aslo, people aren't going to upgrade systems running server 2003 just because MS released a new NOS. I was at Verizon not that long ago and they were still using 2000. Best Buy seems to be running a mix mode domain to this day. I don't see that many companies even planning to implement IPv6 anytime soon... That means the knowledge gained in studying for the MCSE will be valid for a long time to come. My advice: MCSE within 3 months, upgrade to 2008 within 6.
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    #3
    Thank you for the advice, it is well appreciated.

    Unfortunately, 3 months for an MCSE might be too short for studying. Well, thats me. I don't have any hands on Windows 2000 experience, so I heavily rely on VMWare to have a simple server-client network. I also have to take a look on the sections of the exam that I am weak, so a bit of restudying would further delay my certification endeavor
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  5. You Don't See Me
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Thank you for the advice, it is well appreciated.

    Unfortunately, 3 months for an MCSE might be too short for studying. Well, thats me. I don't have any hands on Windows 2000 experience, so I heavily rely on VMWare to have a simple server-client network. I also have to take a look on the sections of the exam that I am weak, so a bit of restudying would further delay my certification endeavor

    Yeah, i would say 3 months for MCSE would just be cramming and not learning, IMO.

    Also, the exams are retiring...not the certification.
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  6. Senior Member
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Hi Guys,

    With the retirement of MCSA/MCSE 2000 this March (correct me if I am wrong), I was wondering when the MCSA/MCSE 2003 be next. Considering the "distance" between the two, would it end come 2011?
    I'm pretty sure that it's far enough off that even if you were just starting now, you would be able to finish without any pressure. There haven't been any official announcements that I'm aware of though.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    I am asking this because of I am currently pursuing for my MCSA 2003 title. I am an exam away (70-291) for the said title. With that, I am eyeing for an MCSE 2003 title. What hinders me however, is the title might be retired just a few years before I've just finished it.
    How long has it been taking you per exam? I would think that you can wrap this up in a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    I am afraid that I might be spending good money for a certification that would fizzle out in 3 years.
    Haha. You may want to consider going into another field then. Most certs either require recertification or simply become obsolete in that approximate time-frame. This is a perpetual cycle in this field, so you're always going to have to keep up with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Would it better if I have my eyes on the MCSA 2003 upgrade for Windows 2008 instead, and focus on other MCTS/MCITP exams to have its "MCSE 2008" version?
    I'd wrap up your 2003 track since you're this far into it. That's going to be widely used for years to come, and 2008 will build on everything you learn, so it's not going to be wasted in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    By the way, I just passed 70-290 this morning
    Congratulations

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertKaucher
    You have plenty of time for this cert to be valid. Besides, if you get your MCSE 2003 you can take just one upgrade exam and get 3 certifications on Server 2008.

    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mc...8/default.mspx
    That exam looks brutal; I am definitely not looking forward to that. It's essentially a 3-in-1.

    I believe you can also upgrade your MCSA with two exams if you would prefer to take that route.

    Also note that you will need to take the Vista exam as well as the 2008 Enterprise Admin exam to obtain the "2008 Enterprise Administrator" title.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertKaucher
    Another thing to consider is the stability of Server 2003. Companies are not going to stop neededing their 2000 servers supported just because MS retired that exam track. Aslo, people aren't going to upgrade systems running server 2003 just because MS released a new NOS.
    Bingo.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertKaucher
    My advice: MCSE within 3 months, upgrade to 2008 within 6.
    That time-line might be a little rigid for you, but it's a good path to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Thank you for the advice, it is well appreciated.

    Unfortunately, 3 months for an MCSE might be too short for studying. Well, thats me. I don't have any hands on Windows 2000 experience, so I heavily rely on VMWare to have a simple server-client network. I also have to take a look on the sections of the exam that I am weak, so a bit of restudying would further delay my certification endeavor
    I think most of us use VMWare even if we have access to a Windows environment. I setup a complex static routing setup last night with four servers and two clients, and I would definitely not do that on my live network at work. I think 1-2 months per exam is reasonable, but work, school, and family can always complicate that.
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  7. Nidhoggr, the Net Serpent Claymoore's Avatar
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    #6
    You should continue pursuing your MCSA/MCSE 2003 for several reasons:

    One, the title and experience never expire even if the exams do. I am still an NT4 MCSE, and that still has some value. Not only did it count as an elective for the 2003 MCSE, but my company still had an active NT4 domain until a few months ago. Legacy app + Unix + Samba = Need for NT4 domain.

    Two, the title is recognizable. I'm not sure how the certifications fracturing into various TS and ITP designations will be treated by the resume search filters on job boards or how they will fit in to a salary structure.

    Third, it's a shorter upgrade path to the 2008 certs. The Vista exam counts as either the client exam or an elective for the MCSA/MCSE and is the required client exam for the ITP:Enterprise Admin cert. Two more tests and you are an ITP:EA!
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  8. Senior Member sthomas's Avatar
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    #7
    I agree that it is best to finish your MCSE 2003 now and worry about the MCITP:EA 2008 exams later. Also, even when the MCSE 2003 exams expire a few years from now that does not mean the certification will be expired, just the exams to get the cert.
    Working on: MCSA 2012 R2
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  9. Senior Member
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    #8

    Default Re: MCSA/MCSE 2003 Retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Hi Guys,

    With the retirement of MCSA/MCSE 2000 this March (correct me if I am wrong), I was wondering when the MCSA/MCSE 2003 be next.
    Not soon enough. I think the death of MCSE will help IT as a whole.
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    #9

    Default Re: MCSA/MCSE 2003 Retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by garv221
    Not soon enough. I think the death of MCSE will help IT as a whole.
    Seriously? Why do you feel that way?
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  11. Senior Member doom969's Avatar
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    #10

    Default Re: MCSA/MCSE 2003 Retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by garv221

    Not soon enough. I think the death of MCSE will help IT as a whole.
    Yep, i'm also curious as to why you think that
    Not intended as a flame, i'm really curious.

    So far, the let go of the mcse title seems to hurt more than it does good. (According to me of course ). Employer and customer knew well about mcse but know zero about the new credential.

    MS needs to do a heck of a better job advertising the generation of certs. I understand that the credential had to be let go 'cause the term ingeneer is regulated by law in many countries. But....
    They could have done better.

    Microsoft Certitified IT professional ???
    That doesnt do a really good job of telling you the skill level of the person....

    Enterprise admin ? When you get this cert and you had mcse before ppl assume you havent been able to get the ingeneer title with 2008.

    I dont really like the terms chosen for the new generation certs.


    Just my 0.02$


    CONGRATS to the op for 290 and good luck on your next exams !
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  12. Junior Member
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    #11
    Thank you all for the sound advice

    Also, the exams are retiring...not the certification.
    So that means that when I have my MCSE 2003 title and the exams retire, the MCSE 2003 credential still reflects on my Microsoft Transcript?

    This is actually my concern, how can you prove that you have been certified if the titles might be deleted on your online transcript once the exam retires? Hiring companies usually asks for proof, and incase you dont have your MCP cards, the online transcript comes in handy.

    According to Microsoft, MCITP certifications will expire in 3 years, and the title would be removed from your online transcript if you dont have a retake. Will this apply to MCP, MCSA, MCSE titles?

    I am afraid that I might be spending good money for a certification that would fizzle out in 3 years.


    Haha. You may want to consider going into another field then. Most certs either require recertification or simply become obsolete in that approximate time-frame. This is a perpetual cycle in this field, so you're always going to have to keep up with it.
    This is the reason why I upgraded my MCDST title (70-621) right away, so I can enjoy the MCTS: Vista Configuration title longer haha. Too bad I just started pursuing my MCSA 2003 title last year
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  13. Senior Member
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Thank you all for the sound advice

    Also, the exams are retiring...not the certification.
    So that means that when I have my MCSE 2003 title and the exams retire, the MCSE 2003 credential still reflects on my Microsoft Transcript?
    Correct. There is a significant difference between exams retiring and certifications expiring. The MCSE will stay on your transcript forever. However, it will obviously become obsolete at some point. Everyone who got an NT 4.0 MCSE still has it, but there's not a whole lot of point in touting it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    This is actually my concern, how can you prove that you have been certified if the titles might be deleted on your online transcript once the exam retires? Hiring companies usually asks for proof, and incase you dont have your MCP cards, the online transcript comes in handy.
    It'll stay on there.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    According to Microsoft, MCITP certifications will expire in 3 years, and the title would be removed from your online transcript if you dont have a retake. Will this apply to MCP, MCSA, MCSE titles?
    That's something new with this new batch of certifications. That doesn't apply to any of the older ones. I'm actually not sure how this is going to work. I've heard mention of "refresher" exams, so I'm not sure if there are going to be special exams to renew your certification or if you simply retake the same exams. I'm going to go for my 2008 Enterprise Administrator as well as various Exchange certifications later this year, so I hope I'm not going to have a huge batch to renew in 2011. I like how Cisco handles the renewals. All you need to do is take one exam at the current level you're at, and that renews all your certifications on that level, and any lower-level certifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    This is the reason why I upgraded my MCDST title (70-621) right away, so I can enjoy the MCTS: Vista Configuration title longer haha. Too bad I just started pursuing my MCSA 2003 title last year
    I believe I obtained my first certification last March, and I don't even have my MCSA yet. I wouldn't worry about it. You have plenty of time to take care of it.
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  14. BOBBY_TABLES RobertKaucher's Avatar
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by famosbrown
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbrian101
    Thank you for the advice, it is well appreciated.

    Unfortunately, 3 months for an MCSE might be too short for studying. Well, thats me. I don't have any hands on Windows 2000 experience, so I heavily rely on VMWare to have a simple server-client network. I also have to take a look on the sections of the exam that I am weak, so a bit of restudying would further delay my certification endeavor

    Yeah, i would say 3 months for MCSE would just be cramming and not learning, IMO.
    I agree basically with you. 5 tests in three months?! I would have died. I wasn't very clear... My intention was MCSE in three months after he gets his MCSA. But I don't necissarily think that 5 tests in three months has to be all cramming.

    The 293 is really just a rehash of the 291. I usually suggest people take it one to two weeks after they pass the 291. The material is pretty much the same the angle of approach is what is different. Then the 294 is really just mastery of ideas that should have been learned in the 270 and 290. The 298, the design exam I took, I barely studied for because I paid very close attention to the security chapters in all of the other books I used for the core exams.

    I will agree that this could just be cramming depending on the student. I took only six months in my exam preparation for MCSE Security. But I took an initial three months to ensure I had the fundamentals by studying Net+ and A+ material, though I did not take the tests. I also did heavy labs with 4 real computers and 2 VM clients. I believe this actual hands on work was better than just VMs.

    But I bet we both agree that if paulbrian101 does not set some sort of deadline he will not finish certifying in a timely manner. I have a few buddies who passed the 270 and 290 and didn't continue because life just got in the way. Kids, new homes, they still do help desk.

    The worst thing is to get distracted by all the cool new things you want to learn. I have that as a very bad personality trait. Oh, cool Server 2008, oh yeah Exchange, hey what about Linux. It wasn't until I realized my career had very little posability to advance that I forced myself to master the basics and focus long enough to get certified.
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  15. Junior Member
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    #14
    Thank you Robert for your personal insight on each MCSA/MCSE 2003 exams. It'll help me a lot on my exam track.

    I have a few buddies who passed the 270 and 290 and didn't continue because life just got in the way.
    I also have colleagues who settled for their MCDST titles. They stopped last year and it seems that I was the only one who wants to pursue an MCSA/MCSE title. Yeah, I tend to lax at times, specially that my colleagues doesnt seem to have the enthusiasm to reach the MCSE title. Back then, we are in a race on whom to finish an exam first. I guess the competetive environment was a great help. Right now, I have to encourage some of my IT graduate friends to study and be certified so as to maintain a "studying" environment within me. I went far as sharing with them the materials I used for my previous exams and giving advice.

    What gets me going is the praise of some IT people and the joy of seeing that congratulations message right after each exam

    The worst thing is to get distracted by all the cool new things you want to learn.
    Haha yeah I have to agree with this, but I'll try to finish my MCSE first. I also wanted to have a CCNA title and a little on some linux flavors
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  16. BOBBY_TABLES RobertKaucher's Avatar
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    #15
    Your MCDST serves as the elective for MCSA. Have you thought about what your elective for the MCSE will be? I would suggest looking at job postings in your area.

    Good luck on your next test! Remember, you are just one away from the MCSA now! When you pass the 291, take the 293 no more that two weeks after.
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  17. Junior Member
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    #16
    I have passed the upgrade exam for MCDST (70-621). AFAIK, MCTS: Windows Vista Configuration (70-620) was credited, making it an MCSE elective.

    I am eyeing on the 70-299 and 70-351 (ISA 2006) exam for my security specialization. I plan to finish MCSA, MCSE, then security. What do you think? This will be a tall order, so I better concentrate on each exam specially 70-291 haha.

    Thanks again!
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    #17

    Default Am I the only one?

    Does it really take that long to study for those exams? I bought a bunch of books and started studying around Jan 15, 08. Here's the rest. Am I the only one who thinks this stuff is easy?
    Now CCNA? That's tough!

    Exam r Date Completed Description
    70-270 1-Feb XP
    70-290 29-Feb Server 2003
    70-291 1-Apr Server 2003
    SY0-101 11-Apr COMPTIA Security Plus
    70-293 18-Apr 2003 Network Infrastructure
    70-294 23-Apr 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure
    70-271 24-Apr Supporting XP
    70-272 25-Apr Supporting Desktop Apps on XP
    70-298 29-Apr 2003 Network Security
    30-Apr COMPTIA Network Plus
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  19. Senior Member sthomas's Avatar
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    #18

    Default Re: Am I the only one?

    Quote Originally Posted by jvizzacc
    Does it really take that long to study for those exams? I bought a bunch of books and started studying around Jan 15, 08. Here's the rest. Am I the only one who thinks this stuff is easy?
    Now CCNA? That's tough!

    Exam r Date Completed Description
    70-270 1-Feb XP
    70-290 29-Feb Server 2003
    70-291 1-Apr Server 2003
    SY0-101 11-Apr COMPTIA Security Plus
    70-293 18-Apr 2003 Network Infrastructure
    70-294 23-Apr 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure
    70-271 24-Apr Supporting XP
    70-272 25-Apr Supporting Desktop Apps on XP
    70-298 29-Apr 2003 Network Security
    30-Apr COMPTIA Network Plus
    It depends on how much experience you have with Windows XP and Server 2003. If you have a lot then then exams will not be that difficult. Same is true for the CCNA or most certification, if you have the experience with Cisco equipment then the exam will be easier than if you didn't and the more the better of course.
    Working on: MCSA 2012 R2
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  20. ROFL-Copter pilot snadam's Avatar
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    #19

    Default Re: Am I the only one?

    Quote Originally Posted by sthomas

    It depends on how much experience you have with Windows XP and Server 2003. If you have a lot then then exams will not be that difficult. Same is true for the CCNA or most certification, if you have the experience with Cisco equipment then the exam will be easier than if you didn't and the more the better of course.
    +1 its apples to oranges when it comes to comparing the two. but it really boils down to how much hands-on you have had with the products. A colleague of mine with 30 years in the biz is one exam away from completing his MCSE, and he could probably just walk in and get a pass. Whereas myself would probably have to study for a good month or so to nail it. I have about 1/5 the years he has.
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  21. ROFL-Copter pilot snadam's Avatar
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    #20
    ironically, I was checking the MCSA/E pages today to look at the upcoming exam objectives for me and I saw this little blurb (see bold):

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoft
    How to earn your MCSE on Windows Server 2003

    To earn your MCSE on Windows Server 2003 certification, you must pass seven exams:
    •Four core exams on networking systems
    •One core exam on client operating systems
    •One core design exam
    •One elective exam

    The MCSE on Windows Server 2003 certification will not retire.

    If you have an MCSE credential on Microsoft Windows 2000 Server, you can transition your skills to Windows Server 2003 by taking two exams.

    How to earn your MCSA on Windows Server 2003

    To earn your MCSA on Windows Server 2003 certification, you must pass four exams:
    •Two core exams on networking systems
    •One core exam on client operating systems
    •One elective exam

    The MCSA on Windows Server 2003 certification will not retire.

    If you have an MCSA credential on Microsoft Windows 2000 Server, you can transition your skills to Windows Server 2003 by taking one exam.
    Im reading this as these exams will not retire ever,?
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    #21
    I think they mean the cert is good for life, the exams have to retire someday.
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  23. ROFL-Copter pilot snadam's Avatar
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel333
    I think they mean the cert is good for life, the exams have to retire someday.
    I tend to agree, but I wished they used the word 'expire' instead of 'retire'
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    #23
    Server 2003 will be in use forever, but what they have there isn't technically accurate. They're actually going to require you to recertify every 10 service packs.
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    #24
    MCSE 2003 title will live on in infamy.



















    For a while at least...
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    #25
    70-270 1-Feb XP
    70-290 29-Feb Server 2003
    70-291 1-Apr Server 2003
    SY0-101 11-Apr COMPTIA Security Plus
    70-293 18-Apr 2003 Network Infrastructure
    70-294 23-Apr 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure
    70-271 24-Apr Supporting XP
    70-272 25-Apr Supporting Desktop Apps on XP
    70-298 29-Apr 2003 Network Security
    30-Apr COMPTIA Network Plus


    So you took the 293 on the 18th and the 294 on the 23rd and passed pretty cool.If only I could study for 5 days after one ms test for another and pass.
    Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet.
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