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  1. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #1

    Default 2003 vs 2008 need advice

    I need some friendly advice, I have been looking at swimming upstream from desktop support jobs. Whats the market like for MCSE 2003 VS 2008. Have many companies upgraded to 2008 . Would I be better served to focus on 2008 . I have heard that the tests in 2008 are pretty much straight forward when compared to 2003. i just want to hear some different perspectives
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  3. Member IT_FAN's Avatar
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    #2

    Default MCITP-EA and MSCE

    I have both certs (MCITP-EA and MSCE). MSCE has name recognition but MCITP-EA is the future. I would pursue the MCITP-EA unless you have plenty of time to get MSCE and then upgrade to MCITP which I Did.

    Here's the difference:


    MCITP: Server Administrator

    The MCITP: Server Administrator identifies you with the knowledge and skills to perform day-to-day management of servers in Windows Servers 2008. While it's not a direct match, many people associate the MCITP Server Administrator as being similar to the MCSA in Server 2003.




    The skills include:
    • Handling day-to-day management of the servers
    • Handling software distribution and updates
    • Monitoring and auditing servers
    • Troubleshooting issues
    MCITP: Enterprise Administrator

    The MCITP: Enterprise Administrator identifies you with the knowledge and skills needed to perform advanced networking tasks including infrastructure design using Windows Server 2008 products. While it's not a direct match, many people associate the MCITP Enterprise Administrator as being similar to the MCSE in Server 2003.




    The skills include:
    • Enterprise systems administrator
    • IT systems administrator
    • Systems architect
    • Network administrator
    • Enterprise security administrator
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  4. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #3
    I guess I need to just focus and make a decision on which path to take
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  5. Still a noob earweed's Avatar
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    #4
    I'm going the 2008 route myself but there is a lot to be said for going the 2003 route. 2003 is still a BIG presence out there. If you could really go at it and get your MCSE in less than a year then that may not be a bad move. It's something you'll have to do a lot of thinking about.
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
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  6. Senior Member
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    #5
    I'm doing Server 2008 (the EA exam on the 23rd) but I would say that 70% of what I do is on Server 2003. The nice thing about MS Certs is they are portable. If you got your MCSE on Server 2000, you were still useful on 2003. Similarly, Server 2003 will look very familiar even if you certified in 2008.

    I think the best reason why you should cert in 2008 is so you can have the ability to "sell" 2008 as the superior sever that it is. A lot of people think 2003 was the pinnacle and they are going to hold on to that until MS drops support for it and beyond.
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  7. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #6
    I guess in a nutshell what I am looking for is a combination of certs that would allow me to swim upstream. I have limited server experience and it seems like once you take a desktop job you are forever stuck in those type of roles. All I need is a junior admin role then I can take it from there
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  8. Member Extraordinaire genXrcist's Avatar
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    #7
    What I liked about getting the MCSE first is that a lot of 2008 was review. There was a lot of information that I re-remembered as a result of upgrading to 2008. I feel like I have a much, much better grasp of the NOS.
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  9. Objectives my friend! varelg's Avatar
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanielTurner View Post
    I guess in a nutshell what I am looking for is a combination of certs that would allow me to swim upstream. I have limited server experience and it seems like once you take a desktop job you are forever stuck in those type of roles. All I need is a junior admin role then I can take it from there
    Earweed put it nicely: winserv2k3 is still big out there and for that reason I'm going down 2k3 path with client exam being XP Pro and elective exam very likely Windows 7 client. I think it's a combination relevant to the current state of affairs regarding Windows networks...
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    #9
    Unless you can do the MCSE in a couple of months, you better go with MCITP EA.

    It's getting closer and closer to the MCSE stuff being retired.
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  11. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #10
    Any info on when tests will retire
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  12. Still a noob earweed's Avatar
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    #11
    The 2003 tests aren't on the March (or is it April) retirement list.

    Edit: The March 31, 2011 list.
    Last edited by earweed; 09-12-2010 at 05:29 AM.
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
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  13. Still a noob earweed's Avatar
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    #12
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
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    #13
    They arent listed fore retirement yet. But most people take atleast half a year or even several years to complete the MCSE.

    Just trying to save you the headache of being 1-2 test away and suddenly you have no chance to complete it.
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  15. Member poriggity's Avatar
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    #14
    While 2008 is the new and "better" setup, there are still ALOT of companies out there that use, and will continue to use Server 2003...
    Scott
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  16. Cyber Ninja III rogue2shadow's Avatar
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    #15
    I'm pretty new to MS stuff server wise and cert wise but I feel if you at least hit a milestone, like the MCSA, you will always have the chance to upgrade. (correct me if I'm wrong)
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  17. Senior Member TheShadow's Avatar
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue2shadow View Post
    I'm pretty new to MS stuff server wise and cert wise but I feel if you at least hit a milestone, like the MCSA, you will always have the chance to upgrade. (correct me if I'm wrong)
    The upgrade exams are the first ones that Microsoft retires. If your MCSA was on win 2000 the upgrade to MCSA 2003 70-292 is no more.

    Exam 70-624: TS: Deploying and Maintaining Windows Vista Client and 2007 Microsoft Office System Desktops; goes away Oct 31 and will not be available to take as part of a 2008 upgrade.

    So the answer is that while base exams stick around for a long time, upgrade exams do not and could require more base exams to get to the next level. 70-621 for MCDST to upgrade to MCITP-EST is also going away shortly requiring two exams to achieve that cert after the deadline.
    Last edited by TheShadow; 09-12-2010 at 10:57 PM.
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  18. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #17
    Thanks for all the responses. In a nutshell I just want to establish a certification path that will allow me to swim upstream from desktop support. But I dont want is to be MCSE ,MCITP etc and stuck spinning wheels doing desktop support.I will most likelydo MCSA AND MCITP:SA and Foundations ITIL and go from there.
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  19. Still a noob earweed's Avatar
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    #18
    Probably a good idea. Then later get the MCITP:EA and perhaps some exchange or SQL certs.
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
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  20. Senior Member
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    #19
    You probably have a pretty good plan (MCSA and MCITP:SA). I went ahead and got my MCSE:2003, and I am now working on my MCITP:EA, but I will say that the MCSE is not for the faint of heart. A couple of the exams are brutal in my opinion (70-293 and 70-294), and it took me about a year to get through the 7 exams and then Security+ for my MCSE:Security.

    I will also say that it will be a LONG time before 2003 goes away. We have a few servers on 2008, but for the most part we're on 2003 and we will be there for quite awhile. The main upgrades so far have be DC's for some of the new functionality.

    Good plan to also get the ITIL Foundations. The exam and material are not hard, and if you do any type of work providing services in an IT world then this is a pretty good cert to get. And I am sure that in the near future customers who pay for services may REQUIRE this cert for certain personnel.

    Good luck.
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  21. Junior Member NathanielTurner's Avatar
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    #20
    So true Todd
    70-294 beat me done to the point that I dont want to fool with it anymore. I figure if concentrate on the MCSA I can build my confidence back up and attack it again. I am trying right now to use the WIA program to get some training hence the question about 2008. 2003 is going to be around for a minute only the big boys will upgrade to 2008. Also there is alot of chatter about virtualization.
    i figure the mcsa/mcitp:sa and itil should give me a good base
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  22. Member
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    #21

    Default MCSA vs MCSE vs MCITP

    My 2 cents- I was originally going to take the MCSA > MCSE > MCTS > MCITP route BUT, at the time I passed 70-291 and earned MCSA I had never failed an IT exam- A+, Security+, 70-290, 70-291, 70-270 (granted I realize these exams are not considered "killers") and felt pretty proud that I hadn't an exam. Then I slammed into a brick wall- failed the 70-293 twice, gave up and move on to the 70-294, failed the 70-294 twice, gave up and decided to take the 70-648 upgrade to Windows 2008, passed with a 800 and a 750 (it's 2 tests combined, but you have to pass both or you fail both) and now I am studying for the 70-646 MCITP:SA, assuming I pass I then will start on the remaining exams for MCITP:EA.

    My problem with MCSE exams was, I didn't have much experience working on actual servers. You can earn the MCSA without having a lot of server experience by doing the labs (multiple times in many cases) and reading the book. But the bar gets raised a lot when you step up to MCSE and unless you have a fair amount of hands on experience w/ server 2003 I think you will have a tough time passing with just book smarts- at least that was the case for me. Incidentally I like working with server 2008 way better than 2003; even though a lot of companies having upgraded yet.
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  23. Questionably Benevolent Moderator Slowhand's Avatar
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    #22
    Honestly, starting out fresh on the 2003 exams at this point may not be a good idea. If you're looking to get ahead, the MCITP:SA isn't a bad place to start. I'd suggest taking 70-640 and 70-642, then decide if you want to take the SA exam or continue straight to EA. There's nothing saying you can't study up on and play around with Windows Server 2003, but I don't think it'd be a good investment of your time to go so far as to pursue MCSA/MCSE status. Much of the MCITP knowledge is retroactive, and with a good reference book or two, you can still administrate 2K3.

    If I were starting out at this point, I'd probably do something along the lines of the following as an 18-24 month plan:
    • MCITP:SA
    • MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator 2010
    • CCNA
    • MCITP:EA
    After that, you could decide if you want to do more Microsoft certs, go after pro-level Cisco certs, do a Linux-related cert, etc. As for looking for a junior-level admin position, start now. Get studying and start putting your resume out there, it'll happen in time and there's no need to wait until you're done with your certs to look for something better; the certs just help the process and help you learn what you need to do your (future) job.

    Good luck, whichever path you decide to go.

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  24. Member Extraordinaire genXrcist's Avatar
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rob7278 View Post
    My 2 cents- I was originally going to take the MCSA > MCSE > MCTS > MCITP route BUT, at the time I passed 70-291 and earned MCSA I had never failed an IT exam- A+, Security+, 70-290, 70-291, 70-270 (granted I realize these exams are not considered "killers") and felt pretty proud that I hadn't an exam. Then I slammed into a brick wall- failed the 70-293 twice, gave up and move on to the 70-294, failed the 70-294 twice, gave up and decided to take the 70-648 upgrade to Windows 2008, passed with a 800 and a 750 (it's 2 tests combined, but you have to pass both or you fail both) and now I am studying for the 70-646 MCITP:SA, assuming I pass I then will start on the remaining exams for MCITP:EA.

    My problem with MCSE exams was, I didn't have much experience working on actual servers. You can earn the MCSA without having a lot of server experience by doing the labs (multiple times in many cases) and reading the book. But the bar gets raised a lot when you step up to MCSE and unless you have a fair amount of hands on experience w/ server 2003 I think you will have a tough time passing with just book smarts- at least that was the case for me. Incidentally I like working with server 2008 way better than 2003; even though a lot of companies having upgraded yet.
    I bet you would have passed them both on your 3rd attempt. This is exactly what happened to me (having never failed an exam as well until 70-293) except that I took them both a 3rd time and passed on that attempt. On the 294, I didn't even study anymore and took it less than a week later, passing with an 800+. FYI ~ I failed the 70-297 x2 and the 70-298 once before passing them as well.~

    I learned that I was making the test more difficult than it was by rationalizing wrong answers. Microsoft is just looking for someone who knows how they recommend doing things and all the study books (Sybex, MSPress) do a pretty good job letting you know what they're looking for.

    Be more confident in what you know and don't let the fails intimidate you.
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    #24
    Not many employers know what the new certification track is about, go for 2003 and upgrade or just go for 2008 it is always good to keep up to date.
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