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  1. Senior Member davidspirovalentine's Avatar
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    #26
    Reading this has finalized my decision of taking the MCITP instead of the MCSE.

    I was supposed to do my MCSE over the last two years but the CCNP was just too interesting!!!

    Now I'm stuck between the too and I think I'm going to go with the MCITP:SA and stop there so that I can go back into security...

    Thanks Clay for clearing my mind, awesome post/thread.

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  3. Questionably Benevolent Moderator Slowhand's Avatar
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    #27
    I agree with just about every point made in this thread, the sun is definitely setting on the Windows Server 2003 certs. One thing that occurs to me is that, for someone just starting out in IT or just beginning to take classes at this point, it would take roundabouts a year or so to finish either the MCSE or MCITP: Enterprise Administrator certs, and at that point the MCITP will have even more relevance. . . not to mention the fact that Server 2008 will be three years old and some new version will be all that much closer to completion.

    Besides, there's nothing that says you simply cannot work with Server 2003 or Windows XP just because you're not certified on them. Sure, things have changed a bit and some features aren't quite the same, but that doesn't mean an admin with MCITP: EA can't sit down and figure out how to apply a GPO in Windows Server 2003's management tools or use XP's version of RDP. After all, I've got a copy of Mastering Windows 2000 Server sitting on my shelf for the very same reason: I never did get certified on the 2000-generation of Windows before starting my MCSA trek back in 2005.

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  4. Senior Member
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowhand View Post

    Besides, there's nothing that says you simply cannot work with Server 2003 or Windows XP just because you're not certified on them. Sure, things have changed a bit and some features aren't quite the same, but that doesn't mean an admin with MCITP: EA can't sit down and figure out how to apply a GPO in Windows Server 2003's management tools or use XP's version of RDP. After all, I've got a copy of Mastering Windows 2000 Server sitting on my shelf for the very same reason: I never did get certified on the 2000-generation of Windows before starting my MCSA trek back in 2005.
    Good point. The MS press books for the MCSE are cheap. You can always get the books and go through the material for your own knowledge, even if the certifications are not available.
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  5. Senior Member za3bour's Avatar
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    #29
    I think 2011 is the last year to take MCSE, 2012 will be MCITP time in my opinion and it make sense this way.

    You need to know 2003 stuff that's for sure but I don't think you need the certificate to prove and that's not the case with 2008 because you need cert and experience with it.
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    #30
    thread = Win
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  7. Senior Member powerfool's Avatar
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    #31
    Thread win? Really?

    Just over four months ago, I post this thread that could be labeled a win that supports the opposite position. Enduring Value of the MCSE. It certainly is a debatable topic, not in the bag either way.

    However, to counter the idea that it is expensive to upgrade to the MCITP: EA after doing the MCSE... that is all about perspective. The poster suggests that two additional exams for a total price of $1125 vs the price of only five exams at $625, plus study materials is a high price. The poster also makes suggestions about time. I would argue, however, that if you are already familiar with Windows Server 2003, it could be in your best economic interest (mainly in terms of time) to go for MCSE 2003, which is what I did in July of this year.

    At the time of my exams, I had seven years of experience with Windows Server 2003, but considerably less experience with Windows Server 2008. I was able to knock out the four core exams in one month by taking an exam each week, and I probably only invested twelve hours of study to the whole ordeal using used study materials that are in ready supply for a substantial discount. While I only need to take the four core to update my MCSE 2000 to MCSE 2003, I also did the security design and admin exams for the specialization, which puts my total number of exams for MCSE 2003 and MCITP EA at the exact same count. Further, the time spent refreshing for 2003 actually helped with the 2008 exams, as well.

    Further, there are people that are putting forth enough efforts to go back and do the MCSE 2003 after doing the MCITP EA... which is much more effort than the other directions, because there is no downgrade exam.

    There certainly is still value in the MCSE 2003, but it is diminishing. I imagine that within two years it will likely be more of a historical trend, similar to discussions of the CNE... but that is still a couple of years from now.
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  8. I "HEART" M$ Mojo_666's Avatar
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    #32
    Powerfool makes a good point,

    I guess if you have been working on 2003 since 2003, know your stuff and want to bash out the exams in a few months then do so. If however you do not know the subject matter already then skip it and don't waste your time as you have missed the 2003 boat.
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  9. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymoore View Post
    It's been a couple of years since that was taken down, but I remember something like 350,000 people held NT4 MCSEs and only 150,000 held 2003 MCSEs. That means there are 200,000 people out there who probably bootcamped and braindumped their way through 6 exams and then haven't taken a test in 12 years.
    Steady on, Im one of those 200000 NT 4.0 MCSE's who didn't upgrade and I didn't bootcamp or braindump the track back in 1999. Many did though.
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  10. Senior Member Reseven's Avatar
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    #34
    Rather than continue down the path from MCSA to MCSE, I have decided to upgrade my MCSA to MCITP:SA.

    I'm just a bit confused about the path as I have read several different ways to go about it.

    70-648, 70-643, and 70-646 are the 3 tests that I thought were needed. I would appreciate it if someone can verify this or point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

    One more thing, I've heard that upgrade tests are harder than the regular exams needed to obtain the MCITP:SA, anyone know about this?
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  11. Senior Member za3bour's Avatar
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Reseven View Post
    Rather than continue down the path from MCSA to MCSE, I have decided to upgrade my MCSA to MCITP:SA.

    I'm just a bit confused about the path as I have read several different ways to go about it.

    70-648, 70-643, and 70-646 are the 3 tests that I thought were needed. I would appreciate it if someone can verify this or point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

    One more thing, I've heard that upgrade tests are harder than the regular exams needed to obtain the MCITP:SA, anyone know about this?

    If you want to upgrade your MCSA to MCITP:SA then you only need two exams 70-648 and 70-646 however if you want to upgrade to MCITP:EA (the enterprise administrator) then you need you need 4 exams

    MCSA on Windows Server 2003

    MCITP: Server Administrator
    Exam 70-648: TS: Upgrading Your MCSA on Windows Server 2003 to Windows Server 2008
    and
    Exam 70-646: PRO: Windows Server 2008, Server Administrator


    check out this page

    Windows Server Certification | Microsoft Server exam list | Microsoft Certified Professional
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  12. Senior Member za3bour's Avatar
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    #36
    As for the difficulty of the upgrade exams I heard that as well but I can't confirm it.
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  13. Nidhoggr, the Net Serpent Claymoore's Avatar
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by powerfool View Post
    However, to counter the idea that it is expensive to upgrade to the MCITP: EA after doing the MCSE... that is all about perspective. The poster suggests that two additional exams for a total price of $1125 vs the price of only five exams at $625, plus study materials is a high price. The poster also makes suggestions about time. I would argue, however, that if you are already familiar with Windows Server 2003, it could be in your best economic interest (mainly in terms of time) to go for MCSE 2003, which is what I did in July of this year.

    At the time of my exams, I had seven years of experience with Windows Server 2003, but considerably less experience with Windows Server 2008. I was able to knock out the four core exams in one month by taking an exam each week, and I probably only invested twelve hours of study to the whole ordeal using used study materials that are in ready supply for a substantial discount. While I only need to take the four core to update my MCSE 2000 to MCSE 2003, I also did the security design and admin exams for the specialization, which puts my total number of exams for MCSE 2003 and MCITP EA at the exact same count. Further, the time spent refreshing for 2003 actually helped with the 2008 exams, as well.
    You fell into the last category in the origingal post - someone who has years of experience with 2003 and wanted the 2003 MCSE to validate your experience. You also had a 2000 MCSE and only needed to upgrade which changes the value calculations. Spending a month or two to wrap up the MCSE and move on is fine, but I'm seeing people with little or no experience just starting down the path and expecting to spend a year or more working through all the exams. For them, skipping the MCSE and moving on to the MCITP and picking up another vendor cert or a speciality is a better use of their time and money.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerfool View Post
    Further, there are people that are putting forth enough efforts to go back and do the MCSE 2003 after doing the MCITP EA... which is much more effort than the other directions, because there is no downgrade exam.
    Now that's just silly.
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  14. Senior Member
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymoore View Post

    I'm going to throw some complete, devil's advocate type guesses out here now. You say there are 100 MCSE jobs and only 20 MCITP jobs in a 50 mile radius. I say there are 200 people with MCSEs and only 30 MCITP holders in the same radius. Having just an MCITP gives you a better shot at landing an interview or a job, because even though the job pool is smaller, the candidate pool is smaller still.
    This is total speculation (as you admit). You may be on to something, but it's a guess and no one actually knows. What I don't understand is how you can argue that the MCSE is dead and counsel people to go for the MCITP EA when the only true data we have as to what HR is looking for (job search engines) shows that the MCSE is more desired at this time by as much as 5:1.

    Yes, even that data is dicey and open to interpretation, but it is still data as opposed to speculation or anecdotal evidence. All I'm saying is that it's debatable as far as which track to take, and I would encourage people to make recommendations on a case-by-case basis.
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  15. PMP-Wannabe! erpadmin's Avatar
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ITHokie View Post
    This is total speculation (as you admit). You may be on to something, but it's a guess and no one actually knows. What I don't understand is how you can argue that the MCSE is dead and counsel people to go for the MCITP EA when the only true data we have as to what HR is looking for (job search engines) shows that the MCSE is more desired at this time by as much as 5:1.

    Yes, even that data is dicey and open to interpretation, but it is still data as opposed to speculation or anecdotal evidence. All I'm saying is that it's debatable as far as which track to take, and I would encourage people to make recommendations on a case-by-case basis.
    Even if what you say is true (that the MCSE is more desired than the MCITP:EA), IT newbies should not be, at this point, study for the MCSE because it will make no sense for them. That's what Claymoore means.

    If you are already experienced in Windows Server 2003 and feel you can knock the MCSE out, then, hey rock out with your **** out. However, if you are new to the game or perhaps new to certifications but experienced in IT...then you're better off going for the MCITP:EA as by the time you complete it (assuming it takes a year), that's going to be the certification in demand...and not the MCSE.
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    #40
    Hi there. I've been considering this question myself. I read the entire thread and the one thing I noticed nobody brought up is the fact that you can apply your Comptia certifications to MCSA, but not the MCITP.

    I graduated last year with a degree in network administration and immediately studied for and passed the A+ and Network+ exams. I was considering following up on these certifications with the exams I need to get the MCSA. Then I discovered that Microsoft had discontinued Server 2003 and offers new certifications for Server 2008. But the MCSA is still being offered. And from what I can gather, you can't apply your comptia certifications to the new certification scheme. Now I am very confused about how to proceed.

    I should also mention that we worked on Server 2003 in my network operating systems class and web server (IIS6) class at my college. I would still need to study and incredible amount and probably start from scratch to get certified in Server 2003, but at least I have some experience with it. I have no experience at all with Server 2008. Also, if I were to take the Windows 7 (70-680) exam as the operating systems portion of the MCSA, I would only need an additional three exams to get the MCITP Enterprise administrator. So to get the MCSA and upgrade to MCITP EA, I would need six exams as opposed to 5 exams for just the newer certification. Would this be worth it? On the other hand, the MCITP Server Administrator, which the MCSA supposedly corresponds to, is only 3 exams or a total of five if I were to upgrade. The MCITP SA doesn't require an operating systems exam, which I don't quite understand.

    I think Microsoft has made this entirely too confusing. What exactly happened to the Comptia - Microsoft educational partnership that allowed for their exams to be used as electives? Has it been dissolved? Does anyone have any thoughts on what I've mentioned?
    Last edited by SneakDogg; 03-23-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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  17. Senior Member Turgon's Avatar
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    #41
    I would say get the MCSE if it is practical for you and also do the newer things. There is still a blend of versions out there and if you are qualified in 'older' technologies it shows you have a handle on migration requirements because you are at least qualified in how the older things work. It may also throw a convienient smoke grenade at people who want reassurance that you have been around. But again, what you have been doing at work is the most important thing. Have the certs to get the hooks into the HR search weenies but have something to talk about in terms of what you have actually delivered in the field from a whiteboard design to deployment and hands on. Far too many MCSE's are stuck resetting passwords, setting accounts up and doing basic troubleshooting these days. But that isn't always their fault.
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