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  1. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #26
    True, nothing that SANS does is proprietary or super secret. Now, find me another decent training with elite instructors, excellent labs, with corresponding certs, etc. I am seriously asking, because I've searched for alternatives and have come up empty handed. I've done all sorts of training and simply nothing compares to a SANS.

    To TechGromit's points, I absolutely expect any decent employer that understands the value of security, the value of training, and the value of their employees to pay for time you spend on training that directly bnefits the company. It's not like people are going to macramé or crochet training. To me this is one of the signs that you may need a better employer.

    +1 also on the networking. I knew absolutely no one when I got my First Work Study. I did get to know most of the coordinators and severla instructors so keeping those connections alive has helped land a total of 5 work study.

    I also want to make a point that to ME one of the biggest value elements of SANS training is the conversations that happen in the classroom, at lunch, bar, etc. To me losing this to OnDemand is absolutely not worth it.
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    #27
    I guess this would be a good reason for people to go ahead and do the just the test. I've been thinking about saving up for sans training but it's still expensive. I've even looked at workstudy and the on demand.

    As far as taking the time off from work, there should be a something that has to do with personal development. I went to an infosec conference in my city and it was for PD. Still got paid for it.


    If it comes down to it, you might have to get to know some people online and be willing to visit them or hang out with them when you're in town. Maybe they'll let you crash at this place. This is what I kinda did in Russia and it kinda worked out. Not saying to use people but its always great to network online and meet nice people who would be willing to help you out.
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    #28
    If you work in Infosec and your company is making you take PTO to attend a SANS conference; I would start looking elsewhere. Not joking.
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  5. Senior Member cshkuru's Avatar
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mactex View Post
    If you work in Infosec and your company is making you take PTO to attend a SANS conference; I would start looking elsewhere. Not joking.
    In general I agree, but in the PacNW the market is dominated by contract employment and contractors aren't usually eligible for training by the company and the contracting company is almost never going to pay for it unless it's required - so until you can get on as a permanent employee you are kind of stuck. If that's the case go for the full boat at a sans conference so you can get the networking opportunities. I did that last year in Orlando and it is one of the reasons I was able to convert to an FTE slot I think.

    As for the on-demand courses - The content is good but without the instructor SANS has some real balls charging as much as they do for classroom instruction. I told them that after I got my GICSP, they didn't seem too impressed by my suggestion.

    I'm thinking maybe someone should start a slack channel for SANS on-demand course for the networking and to arrange local meetups and such. Someone who knows more about slack weigh in. I am not trying to pass the buck I just don't use it much.
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by cshkuru View Post
    In general I agree, but in the PacNW the market is dominated by contract employment and contractors aren't usually eligible for training by the company and the contracting company is almost never going to pay for it unless it's required - so until you can get on as a permanent employee you are kind of stuck. If that's the case go for the full boat at a sans conference so you can get the networking opportunities. I did that last year in Orlando and it is one of the reasons I was able to convert to an FTE slot I think.

    As for the on-demand courses - The content is good but without the instructor SANS has some real balls charging as much as they do for classroom instruction. I told them that after I got my GICSP, they didn't seem too impressed by my suggestion.

    I'm thinking maybe someone should start a slack channel for SANS on-demand course for the networking and to arrange local meetups and such. Someone who knows more about slack weigh in. I am not trying to pass the buck I just don't use it much.
    That's a good point. I had forgotten what it was like as a contractor. It's been a while. I was definitely referring to FTE.

    I have done a couple of SANS On-Demand; and wholeheartedly agree that the quality is not on par with a live event. They should not be charging the same amount. Although some are better than others. I even hit them hard in my course feedback about this for one of the courses.
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  7. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mactex View Post
    I have done a couple of SANS On-Demand; and wholeheartedly agree that the quality is not on par with a live event. They should not be charging the same amount. Although some are better than others. I even hit them hard in my course feedback about this for one of the courses.
    So long as students/employers are willing to pay full price for on-demand training, SANS is more than happy to charge for it. Companies like it because it cuts the cost of training by several thousand dollars without having travel expenses. Also in a pinch, they can tell there employee put your training on pause, we need you to go look at this. If students/companies bulked at paying full price for Ondemand, I'm sure they would lower the price. Based on my Global Knowledge CCNA training where most students attended a live training event online, I would guess the Ondemand market for SANS is as big as if not bigger than there live events. If your willing to pay though the nose, why should SANS lower the price?

    As cyberguypr pointed out, attending a live event is well worth the cost. If my company bulked at sending me to a live event and only offered to pay for an ondemand bundle, I'd pay for the travel on my on dime. I can't say I made very many contract among other SANS students, but I think networking I did with the instructors will pay dividends in the future.
    Last edited by TechGromit; 12-01-2017 at 06:54 PM.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    So long as students/employers are willing to pay full price for on-demand training, SANS is more than happy to charge for it. Companies like it because it cuts the cost of training by several thousand dollars without having travel expenses. Also in a pinch, they can tell there employee put your training on pause, we need you to go look at this. If students/companies bulked at paying full price for Ondemand, I'm sure they would lower the price. Based on my Global Knowledge CCNA training where most students attended a live training event online, I would guess the Ondemand market for SANS is as big as if not bigger than there live events. If your willing to pay though the nose, why should SANS lower the price?

    As cyberguypr pointed out, attending a live event is well worth the cost. If my company bulked at sending me to a live event and only offered to pay for an ondemand bundle, I'd pay for the travel on my on dime. I can't say I made very many contract among other SANS students, but I think networking I did with the instructors will pay dividends in the future.

    Right. I'm not saying On Demand doesn't have any pros. I'm just saying from my experience; the quality is not the same and the cost should reflect that. One particular on-demand class had very poor editing and sound. I have attended SANS live events as well and agree the value is high.
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  9. BoA
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    #33
    that's really not good
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