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  1. Senior Member
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    #1

    Default SANS Prices up again

    I have to pay for a course and only have to submit completion certification emailed to the ed department by end of year. Yes I know, they don't care if I pass or not which helps me even more to meet the 2017 deadline. Since, I have X amount of money a year for IT Training/bootcamps I only have a short amount of time to make the 2017 cut off.

    I know a few weeks ago the course I was looking at was about 5810. I am not sure of the exact price but I know for a fact it wasn't $6,210. I had LASIK Surgery so I know my vision is great. I am not anyone's definition of old, so I know my memory is good as well. I think the prices went up the past month or so. Maybe I am in a big nightmare right now.

    Luckily for me I pay out of pocket and get reimbursed. I am not saying I haven't ever paid for a course that wasn't reimbursable though.

    I swear every year these prices seem to be increasing slowly but surely. It is stated in these boards that the courses are more beneficial for self funding individuals but this is crazy. In a couple years the courses including the exam will be around 10k. I will need to work for Facebook to get that kind of assistance for "bootcamps". We are not talking about an nationally known accreditated IVY League school here. It is in most people's definition a bootcamp. It is now $6210 with a $729 voucher. I don't remember what my GCIH exam cost but I am quite sure it started with a 5 and not a 7.

    I need to go ahead and get like two more GIAC certifications then just pay the fees for renewal. If I make this December cutoff, I will drop another SANS training education packet in January to cover 2018. That'll give me one year to meditate.

    They used to have like 600 off specials. I see a 400 off special. I know for a fact the last special they had was 400 as well. They doing back to back 400 off specials. They thought I didn't notice it though. Silly them. Raise the price use the same special, if you aren't paying attention you think for a split second you got a discount.
    Last edited by GirlyGirl; 11-27-2017 at 04:37 PM.
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  3. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #2
    Based on previous disucssions the new pricing is for courses after 1/1/18. If you taken then by 12/31/17 it would still be 5,910.

    SANS pricing is the epitome of Adam Smith's Invisible Hand Theory at work.
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  4. They are watching you NetworkNewb's Avatar
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    #3
    SANS price up again. Just another Monday.
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  5. Senior Member
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    #4
    These people need to retire sometime!

    -b/eads
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  6. California Kid JoJoCal19's Avatar
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    #5
    It's a shame honestly. When they were like $5k I was willing to self pay for a few that were really specialized (FOR610 for example). But not anymore. I'm also still pissed they jacked up the challenge price from like $1200 to $1700 I'm really interested in seeing just how willing employers are to keep paying the ever increasing prices. I'm also waiting for someone to come in and disrupt the market.
    Have: CISSP, CISM, CISA, CRISC, GCIA, GSEC, AWS CCP, CEHv8, CHFIv8, ITIL-F, BSBA - UF, MSISA - WGU
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  7. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #6
    On the bright side, it makes you existing certifications that much more valuable, since fewer employers and students can afford to pay for them. On the down side, if SANS prices themselves out of the market, I could foresee DoDD 8570 replacing the GIAC certs with something else, the SCYBER is an new addition to the list. I think SANS is marketing mainly to the government, which has very deep pockets, from what I've seen, a good portion of the SANS students work for the government.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  8. Senior Member
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    On the bright side, it makes you existing certifications that much more valuable, since fewer employers and students can afford to pay for them. On the down side, if SANS prices themselves out of the market, I could foresee DoDD 8570 replacing the GIAC certs with something else, the SCYBER is an new addition to the list. I think SANS is marketing mainly to the government, which has very deep pockets, from what I've seen, a good portion of the SANS students work for the government.
    First, the market sets the price...most boot camps are somewhere between $3,000-6,000.

    The government is unlikely to take GIAC out of 8570/8140 because the research and training that goes into SANS/GIAC is on such a superior level to other training. Look at GCIA...there isn’t any intrusion analysis course even out there...GPEN/GWAPT give you great material, compared to OSCP who gives you a foundation but leaves a lot of learning up to the individual (hence a cost difference).

    There is no question SANS wants companies that can send people to their courses, but honestly a lot of people making over $100k hopefully can afford a course every few years....$2,000-7,000 per year investment into yourself isn’t that unreasonable...I think where people get lost is the courses aren’t priced for an early career person to self study, most people you see at the conferences are 4-5+ years experience.
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  9. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuru80 View Post
    There is no question SANS wants companies that can send people to their courses, but honestly a lot of people making over $100k hopefully can afford a course every few years....$2,000-7,000 per year investment into yourself isn’t that unreasonable...
    I would agree with that, but my company beginning to limit the number of SANS courses the department attends each year, and I work a Utility, they have fairly deep pockets when compared to a lot of other companies. So long as my employer is willing to pick up the tab, why should I pay? I can't say I'm making 100k+ yet, but I can see myself investing in a SANS course every few years out of my own pocket to keep the certs I have valid.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  10. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #9
    Don't forget about work study. I spent $1000 on the trainign and the rest in booze. WIN!
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  11. Senior Member
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberguypr View Post
    Based on previous disucssions the new pricing is for courses after 1/1/18. If you taken then by 12/31/17 it would still be 5,910.

    SANS pricing is the epitome of Adam Smith's Invisible Hand Theory at work.


    I just went through the purchase of a course and it shows $6,210 plain as a deer in an open field. We can't go off of discussions as creditable information. It is like believing everything someone says on this site. I just tested the theory. The next page is the payment page/Review Order. That price is effective immediately.
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  12. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #11
    Interesting. Are you buying a physical course or OnDemand? I looked up SEC401 November 27 in San Francisco and it's 5,910. Same class in Austin December 4th is also 5,910. First class of 2018 is Reston January 15th and is the first one to show up at 6,210. i also noticed that OnDemand and vLive are already at 6,210.
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  13. Senior Member
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    I would agree with that, but my company beginning to limit the number of SANS courses the department attends each year, and I work a Utility, they have fairly deep pockets when compared to a lot of other companies. So long as my employer is willing to pick up the tab, why should I pay? I can't say I'm making 100k+ yet, but I can see myself investing in a SANS course every few years out of my own pocket to keep the certs I have valid.
    Absolutely have your company pay whenever they are willing to...the $100k is more to point out mid level and higher should be capable to afford a course every so often to keep current and that the amount of material you get on a subject from SANS should be enough to keep one busy for the better part of a year to specialize instead of running around getting every cert possible....as you get higher it’s more about the quality than quantity.
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  14. Senior Member
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    #13
    Rants about it being overpriced aside, I really feel like the OnDemand courses should cost less than a live class. There is no way their costs to run the OnDemand are anywhere remotely close as they are for the live events but the people who can't travel to them have to pay the same rates.

    As for the Work Study, in most areas the competition can be really high. I have a related degree, other certs, work in the security field and have taken a SANS course before. I've applied to a few and if I get picked it's always for my last ranked pick like the CISSP prep course or something I don't need and that no one else wants to do. Everyone always throws out the work study option but good luck just walking in and getting any of the more desired courses anywhere near any reasonable sized city.
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  15. Member
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    #14

    Default Alternative Price

    The alternative here is enrolling in one of their graduate certificate programs. The tuition for each course is still $5k, and that covers exam attempts. Also; I think you can do a one-off grad course (SANS course) without being enrolled.

    https://www.sans.edu/admissions/tuition

    Edit: further clarification on the one-offs: "An individual may take up to two courses as a non-degree seeking student prior to enrolling in a formal course of studies. Tuition for a single course is $5,250, regardless of the credit hours earned for that course. Tuition includes the cost of the course, text books, and certification tests that serve as mid-term or final exams for graduate courses."
    Last edited by mactex; 11-28-2017 at 08:18 PM.
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  16. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #15
    I have a feeling that one of two things will happen: they will raise prices for that single course option or introduce some sort of exclusion/limitation. Knowing how they roll if that doesn't happen it means someone fell asleep at the wheel over there.
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  17. Member
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberguypr View Post
    I have a feeling that one of two things will happen: they will raise prices for that single course option or introduce some sort of exclusion/limitation. Knowing how they roll if that doesn't happen it means someone fell asleep at the wheel over there.
    Can't argue with that. I do get the feeling that they want to make the school side of SANS more popular. So that may be a dilemma for them.
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  18. Member
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mactex View Post
    Can't argue with that. I do get the feeling that they want to make the school side of SANS more popular. So that may be a dilemma for them.
    That is largely due to the increasing amount of veterans who are getting off military status and have the GI Bill and employers who are willing to do tuition reimbursement as opposed to training. Folks are screaming to high heaven about prices, but fail to remember many of the industry leaders are instructors there or assist in other ways as well. They know full well that training budgets are the first to get cut when quarterly earnings are at stake for private sector. For public sector, the federal government has been in a continuing resolution for a number of years: which means departments are not getting more money to spend...instead they have to cut somewhere which is typically training. Most of the states local government are broke as well. The one area that never fails to get money are degrees.
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  19. Member
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy_Randerson View Post
    That is largely due to the increasing amount of veterans who are getting off military status and have the GI Bill and employers who are willing to do tuition reimbursement as opposed to training. Folks are screaming to high heaven about prices, but fail to remember many of the industry leaders are instructors there or assist in other ways as well. They know full well that training budgets are the first to get cut when quarterly earnings are at stake for private sector. For public sector, the federal government has been in a continuing resolution for a number of years: which means departments are not getting more money to spend...instead they have to cut somewhere which is typically training. Most of the states local government are broke as well. The one area that never fails to get money are degrees.
    Concur with all. In fact; I am burning some of my GI bill doing it right now. GI Bill is paying for the courses and the company is paying the travel.
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  20. Member
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mactex View Post
    Concur with all. In fact; I am burning some of my GI bill doing it right now. GI Bill is paying for the courses and the company is paying the travel.
    Exactly. Tie in most major companies and public sector have tuition reimbursement programs -- this is a win/win for your management and you as a person. They get cheaper than dirt training from a top tier entity since they'll only cover travel expenses and you get to travel and get some pretty awesome training and networking capabilities. Being completely candid, who do you think your leadership is going to allow travel for training? The one who is utilizing other aspects of money (whether TA Assistance, GI Bill, etc.) or the person that'll eat your entire departments training budget?
    Last edited by Randy_Randerson; 11-29-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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  21. Senior Member
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberguypr View Post
    Interesting. Are you buying a physical course or OnDemand? I looked up SEC401 November 27 in San Francisco and it's 5,910. Same class in Austin December 4th is also 5,910. First class of 2018 is Reston January 15th and is the first one to show up at 6,210. i also noticed that OnDemand and vLive are already at 6,210.

    OnDemand. That is why. I was going to email SANS but I decided against it. They are very welcoming and opening to working with you. I know from experience. Either way, two more certifications and I am done with SANS. I am just doing renewals from that point forward until life ends and I go be with the higher power.

    Thank you Mr. Cyber

    Have a wonderfulday.
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  22. Senior Member
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Danielm7 View Post
    Rants about it being overpriced aside, I really feel like the OnDemand courses should cost less than a live class. There is no way their costs to run the OnDemand are anywhere remotely close as they are for the live events but the people who can't travel to them have to pay the same rates.

    As for the Work Study, in most areas the competition can be really high. I have a related degree, other certs, work in the security field and have taken a SANS course before. I've applied to a few and if I get picked it's always for my last ranked pick like the CISSP prep course or something I don't need and that no one else wants to do. Everyone always throws out the work study option but good luck just walking in and getting any of the more desired courses anywhere near any reasonable sized city.

    It's a lot of political and who you know involved in WorkStudy. If you know the right people you'll get in.

    Long story short, I facilitated at an event and the instructor had a female that works for his company facilitating. What a heck of a coincidence hugh? Granted, everyone goes to the event and kisses a little but to save thousands of dollars. They know that. They are not stupid. They know your purpose. I understand a little. But, If you are really in the in crowd and really connected, you will get any SANS training you want. That's a fact. No matter what course you apply for, 20 other people around the globe probably applied for it.

    My first app I was accepted for like my second pick. Four or five apps later no response. That is why I am glad I have a great company. Work study adds up. I am sure I addressed this before but I'll jump on it again.

    If you are not in driving distance of an event you might as well pay for the course. You have to get there a day early my event was small so we packed up the same day. Use the 6 day event. You are there 7 days. Leave more than likely on the 8th day. It might be a late night on the 7th. Eight days, times the most expensive hotel in town SANS stays in, we will use $200 a night. Forget the "discount" you get, only if you get accepted super early and not 2 weeks before....200 x 8 is 1600. Just for hotel fees. If you are cheap and want to stay in a hole-in-the-wall part of town help yourself. Not I.

    1. So $1600 hotel.

    2. If you have to fly, a roundtrip. XXX-XXXX

    3. Rental car/taxi- unless you have no life and want to stay in your hotel and drink beers downstairs in the hotel lobby. So much fun I can't contain myself.

    4. WorkStudy cost- XXXX

    5. The money you are losing being away from work for 8 days. People ALWAYS forget the last part.

    I could go on and on. The point I am getting at is sometimes WorkStudy is the chepaer option. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it can come out to just about the same to purchasing OnDemand..sometimes purchasing OnDemand twice.
    Last edited by GirlyGirl; 11-29-2017 at 02:51 AM.
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  23. Senior Member
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirl View Post
    1. So $1600 hotel.

    2. If you have to fly, a roundtrip. XXX-XXXX

    3. Rental car/taxi- unless you have no life and want to stay in your hotel and drink beers downstairs in the hotel lobby. So much fun I can't contain myself.

    4. WorkStudy cost- XXXX

    5. The money you are losing being away from work for 8 days. People ALWAYS forget the last part.

    I could go on and on. The point I am getting at is sometimes WorkStudy is the chepaer option. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it can come out to just about the same to purchasing OnDemand..sometimes purchasing OnDemand twice.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this. I'll point it out often enough and everyone is like "Oh, you want to get into infosec, do the GCIA or GPEN at a SANS event for 1100, done!" They offer amazing training but the cost is getting crazy even for most company's training budgets. Between travel/hotel/food and the course it's hard to get management to buy into up to 10K per person every time they want to go to a week of training.
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  24. Senior Member McxRisley's Avatar
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    #23
    As we all know, SANS isn't the only infosec certification business in town. Just go all out CompTIA and all of your 8140 needs will be satisfied all the way up to IAM2. I get that people pay for the SANS material/training becuase it is good stuff but SANS isn't the only way to learn the skills/tools/techniques they cover.

    Disclaimer - I'm not saying CompTIA is better in anyway, just saying there are cheaper options out there and also google/youtube.
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  25. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirl View Post

    5. The money you are losing being away from work for 8 days. People ALWAYS forget the last part.
    Assuming you work in Infosec already, I would expect your company to pay you while you do a training event. They pay you when they pay for and send you away for training, I would expect them to pay me for a training event I paid for out of my own pocket. I would omit the fact I'm working for someone else while training, I'd just tell them it's a 8 day training event.

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirl View Post
    It's a lot of political and who you know involved in WorkStudy. If you know the right people you'll get in.
    I made it a point to get to know some of the instructors at my last couple SANS events, I'm fairly certain one of the instructors I know would give me a recommendation to facilitate for the courses they teach, but they only teach a few courses, don't know if this will translate into being able to take courses they don't teach.

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirl View Post
    ... unless you have no life and want to stay in your hotel and drink beers downstairs in the hotel lobby. So much fun I can't contain myself.
    Don't underestimate value the networking opportunities staying close to the hotel. Having just ordered dinner in the hotel lobby, I struck up a conversation with one of the instructors (wasn't even aware he was an instructor at the time) and ended sitting with him, eating dinner and had a good conversation. At another event I drank in the hotel lobby with several instructors, they remembered my name at the next SANS event. Just remember your there to learn and network, save the sight seeing crap for your vacations.
    Last edited by TechGromit; 12-01-2017 at 05:39 PM.
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  26. Senior Member McxRisley's Avatar
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
    Assuming you work in Infosec already, I would expect your company to pay you while you do a training event. They pay you when they pay for and send you away for training, I would expect them to pay me for a training event I paid for out of my own pocket. I would omit the fact I'm working for someone else while training, I'd just tell them it's a 8 day training event.
    Some people are lucky rnough to have these benefits but the reality is that there are a ton of companies that dont do this or even offer enough training money per year to pay for a SANS course.
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