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  1. Member LWB250's Avatar
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    #1

    Default SANS Orlando "Official" - Who put in for Work Study?

    Just got the event announcement, although it's been on their schedule for some time. I put in for work study months ago. Hoping I'll get invited again. If you put in for work study and get a response from SANS, post something here so we know they've started to put the word out.

    Since it's not until April I'm expecting they won't be sending out the notifications until after the first of the year.

    Good luck, everyone! Hope to see you in Orlando!
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  3. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #2
    I just applied today, I selected my top ten choices, but when I hit submit it kicked back an error, select 14 choices minimal. I had a lot of trouble coming up with 10 selections, 14 made it that much more difficult. Many of my selections do not have certifications yet, I'm not too happy about potentially paying $1,500 for a course I may not even be interested in, and no certification to boot. If I'm picked, I'll follow through, maybe it will give me better leverage to get a course I really do want. I even picked a level 600 pentest course, but I have no intention of trying a level 600 exam again, way too much stress for me. I would really like to take SAN560 next, I really want to get some offensive training / experience. I'm pretty sure I can get my employer to pick up the tab for the work study, Hotel, Airfare and meals. If this doesn't pan out, I'll hit my employer up for eJPT training, than maybe the OSCP.
    Last edited by TechGromit; 02-01-2018 at 05:11 PM.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  4. Member LWB250's Avatar
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    #3
    I have always filled out the whole list, with my top choices where you would expect them to be.

    A little birdie told me me that completing the whole list was important for the selection process.
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  5. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #4
    I entered 0's for course I wasn't interested in and I'm certainly not going to enter selections for courses I already took. If they allowed you to pick a different on-demand course then you selected, that be one thing, but they don't. It would make sense for SANS, if you had a facilitator that already took the course, they would be better able to assist students that didn't take the course before.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  6. Member LWB250's Avatar
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    #5
    I think I have done it by courses I wanted to take first, then less desirable courses, then courses I have taken, then ones I either wasn’t qualified for or had no interest in taking.

    After all, there’s little value in placing someone in a class they don’t want to take...
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  7. Member LWB250's Avatar
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    #6
    Got notice that I’ve been waitlisted for Orlando last night. Guess I’ve done it enough they’re putting me aside for new blood.

    Oh well.
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  8. Senior Member cshkuru's Avatar
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    #7
    Just a note on selection. There appears to be the normal facilitating track, but the vLive courses have their own so just because you weren't selected doesn't mean you won't be. I was selected for vLive for SANS Anaheim but had to turn it down because my work schedule changed three days later I was selected as a facilitator at the regular SANS Anaheim event and again had to turn them down due to the work schedule change. Like I said separate tracks so don't give up hope.
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    #8
    What is the work study program like? I am interested in doing it but is it 7am-7pm, running around, eating in the corner after everyone worth it? Can work study students have time to participate in the boot camp session they are facilitating?

    Can anyone speak to their experience as a work study facilitator for a boot camp session?
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by catscaps View Post
    What is the work study program like? I am interested in doing it but is it 7am-7pm, running around, eating in the corner after everyone worth it? Can work study students have time to participate in the boot camp session they are facilitating?

    Can anyone speak to their experience as a work study facilitator for a boot camp session?
    I facilitated at a small conference in Philly in 2016. It was a great experience. I showed up the day before the conference and spent 5 hours setting everything up. The first day of the conference I had to arrive 2 hours before the students and hand out books. I helped out a few students during the training, collected the surveys and entered them into a database and setup a few other things. on the last day I spent 2 hours tearing everything down. I've heard that some instructors are more demanding on their facilitators. There were some stories of instructors making their students fill their water glass when it gets low, running across the hotel to get them specific drinks, etc but no names were mentioned.
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  11. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #10
    Well, I've done it 5 times and the hefty discount makes it all worth it since I don't have $6k and can't justify it with my employer. Even if you miss some class time, you have On-Demand access (if available for that class) to catch up. It's important to remember that you are a STUDENT also so you are expected to go through the whole class, which means up to 7PM for SEC401. Read expectations here: https://www.sans.org/media/security-...nes-Manual.pdf

    In regards to lunch/snacks you work with other facilitators, the instructor, and even other students to help you out so it's not like you'll have 2 minutes to go grab a sandwich and eat it in the bathroom. For me it's always been a very amicable experience and everyone is willing to help.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by catscaps View Post
    What is the work study program like? I am interested in doing it but is it 7am-7pm, running around, eating in the corner after everyone worth it? Can work study students have time to participate in the boot camp session they are facilitating?

    Can anyone speak to their experience as a work study facilitator for a boot camp session?
    You didn't properly do your leg work my dear friend. Not every course is 7am-7pm as you stated. I remember that it was mentioned that SEC 401 was the longest course. So, I would just assume that you are talking about that particular course. But, I have not and will not look at all 30+ courses to see class times. So, I assumed.

    You rarely will leave the class. Instances of leaving the class:
    1. Need more course evaluation sheets.
    2. Getting more (working) CAT5/ duck tape.
    3. Batteries for the clicker/remote.


    You test everything prior to the students even arriving. IF it works before class more than likely it'll work during class.

    Your breaks aren't the same as the students. You have to sit in stand in the hallways or stand on your head and watch the student materials. Such as making sure 40 laptops don't disappear. I was told by someone from SANS that they had a classroom full of laptops go missing. In my head, it's hard to believe but I wasn't going to question the integrity of the information giver.

    When you walk out of class the instructor isn't saying hey where are you going?? They don't care as long as everything is working. When I was hungry, I walked out and ate. When I needed to use the bathroom, I walked out and used the bathroom. Don't think to deep into it.
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  13. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #12
    I was told last week I wasn't selected for the Orlando Conference.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  14. Senior Member
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by catscaps View Post
    What is the work study program like? I am interested in doing it but is it 7am-7pm, running around, eating in the corner after everyone worth it? Can work study students have time to participate in the boot camp session they are facilitating?

    Can anyone speak to their experience as a work study facilitator for a boot camp session?

    People from around the world are interested in it as well

    Getting in is the hard part.
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  15. California Kid JoJoCal19's Avatar
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoee View Post
    You have to sit in stand in the hallways or stand on your head and watch the student materials. Such as making sure 40 laptops don't disappear.
    Unless something drastic has changed from when I did it a little over a year ago, this isn't accurate. As a matter of fact it was made clear to me that I am there for the INSTRUCTOR and not the students. Trying to remember for sure but I also recall Mike Poor even telling the students that if they leave their stuff it's at their own risk and he didn't recommend it. I did however have a couple of students right next to me that I'd gotten to know ask me to watch their stuff, which I obliged.
    Have: CISSP, CISM, CISA, CRISC, GCIA, GSEC, CCSK, AWS CCP, CEHv8, CHFIv8, ITIL-F, MS Cyber Security - USF, BSBA - UF, MSISA - WGU
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    if they leave their stuff it's at their own risk and he didn't recommend it.
    The only thing I can really see is making sure that nobody is trying to steal the SANS equipment, or if the instructor leaves to go to the bathroom just making sure somebody doesn't go get on their laptop.

    My experience was basically like this:
    Day 0 before the conference, you show up and help get all the materials bagged up for students and setup the registration room. Basically you are looking at a half day of work.

    Day 1, show up early (I think it was like 6am or so) and help all the students get registered and the appropriate books / shirt sizes.

    -Every morning you get any instructor notes or handouts from the SANS personnel running the conference.
    -During the day, if the instructor needs drinks get them...if there are technical issues, find the technical staff to help.
    -At the end of each day, pass out evaluations, collect them once complete and then tally the results.
    -Each day had evening talks in which you can volunteer to facilitate depending on how many people are there.

    For SEC401 (GSEC) Security Essentials Bootcamp, you have labs at the end which definitely makes it a long day and the talks will start right around when you are finishing. This can make getting food vs going to the talks challenging, and to be honest you might be exhausted already.

    You will barely miss any class, especially if you can anticipate things like the instructor needing drinks or something...even then you won't miss much but it helps. Also, for the significant discount you get on the courses, SANS doesn't ask very much from you...literally a $4,000 discount (if traveling) for maybe 10ish hours extra over the week.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    Unless something drastic has changed from when I did it a little over a year ago, this isn't accurate. As a matter of fact it was made clear to me that I am there for the INSTRUCTOR and not the students. Trying to remember for sure but I also recall Mike Poor even telling the students that if they leave their stuff it's at their own risk and he didn't recommend it. I did however have a couple of students right next to me that I'd gotten to know ask me to watch their stuff, which I obliged.

    From the look at your two GIAC certifications I am going to say you haven't been to enough SANS events to call my statement inaccurate. . You are still wet behind the ears. That is not unless, you did some of that SANS no certification at the end training that is out in SANS space.

    You can't vouch for SANS or the 20 countries that enable facilitators to be in a year. You are not a worldwide SANS Public Affairs Officer.

    Because I had time, here..I produced black and white. Like I did when I am always right, which is more often than not. Just because it wasn't stressed at your event doesn't mean it isn't stressed at others around the globe. Here:

    Based on the size of the event, facilitators with a professional, cheerful, helpful attitude assist
    with, but are not limited to, the following responsibilities:
     Set-up and tear-down of classrooms
     Registration of students
    Room monitor/instructor’s aide
     Compilation of daily class evaluations
     Audio/Visual support
     SANS School Store sales and courseware distribution
     Special events such as – SANS@Night, Birds of a Feather, Vendor Expo


    If you want the email I will forward it to you for a generous Pay Pal cost for my time.
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    #17
    I was told the exact same thing when I facilitated. I was told that if anyone asks if I can watch their laptop or bag to say no.
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  19. Senior Member
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoee View Post
    From the look at your two GIAC certifications I am going to say you haven't been to enough SANS events to call my statement inaccurate. . You are still wet behind the ears. That is not unless, you did some of that SANS no certification at the end training that is out in SANS space.

    You can't vouch for SANS or the 20 countries that enable facilitators to be in a year. You are not a worldwide SANS Public Affairs Officer.

    Because I had time, here..I produced black and white. Like I did when I am always right, which is more often than not. Just because it wasn't stressed at your event doesn't mean it isn't stressed at others around the globe. Here:

    Based on the size of the event, facilitators with a professional, cheerful, helpful attitude assist
    with, but are not limited to, the following responsibilities:
     Set-up and tear-down of classrooms
     Registration of students
    Room monitor/instructor’s aide
     Compilation of daily class evaluations
     Audio/Visual support
     SANS School Store sales and courseware distribution
     Special events such as – SANS@Night, Birds of a Feather, Vendor Expo


    If you want the email I will forward it to you for a generous Pay Pal cost for my time.
    This is the douchiest reply to a post I have ever seen.
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  20. California Kid JoJoCal19's Avatar
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by quogue66 View Post
    I was told the exact same thing when I facilitated. I was told that if anyone asks if I can watch their laptop or bag to say no.
    Sorry, judging by the fact that you only have 7 GIAC certs you probably haven't been to enough SANS events to call his statement inaccurate

    Quote Originally Posted by johndoee View Post
    Room monitor/instructor’s aide
    And as was explained to me by two of SANS' most respected instructors, and SANS event staff, room monitor to watch the instructors equipment and any SANS owned equipment. NOT the students' equipment. And yes at least one of the instructors even told the students themselves leave your equipment at your own risk. Also, just because I only pursued these two GIAC certs doesn't mean I've only facilitated for or been to two events either.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuru80 View Post
    The only thing I can really see is making sure that nobody is trying to steal the SANS equipment, or if the instructor leaves to go to the bathroom just making sure somebody doesn't go get on their laptop.
    Exactly this. I had asked SANS event management staff exactly this to be sure my first time facilitating.
    Last edited by JoJoCal19; 03-21-2018 at 01:46 PM.
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  21. Senior Member cyberguypr's Avatar
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoCal19 View Post
    And as was explained to me by two of SANS' most respected instructors, and SANS event staff, room monitor to watch the instructors equipment and any SANS owned equipment. NOT the students' equipment. And yes at least one of the instructors even told the students themselves leave your equipment at your own risk.
    This is the exact same guidance I received at my 5 events, both from staff management and instructors. The first time I facilitated I got inundated by student requests (books, VMs, Windows copies) and the guidance is always "talk to instructor or event management". We are simply not there to cater to students. Our job is to point them in the right direction and that's it.

    If other facilitators have heard about looking out for student gear please speak up because this goes against everything I've been told since 2012.
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoee View Post
    Room monitor/instructor’s aide
    I think your taking Room Monitor too literal, you can hardly be expected to monitor the room all day, not take bathroom breaks, skip lunch, etc to watch SANS equipment. Also SANS wouldn't want to create the impression someone who works for SANS is guarding the student belongings, it could open themselves up for implied liability if something goes missing.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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    #22
    yeesh. what a snarky response. you'd think girly girl had a 2nd account
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  24. IOCs? What IOCs???!! jcundiff's Avatar
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    #23
    Orlando will be my first SANS event (FOR 57... didn't know about the work study option, but my company will typically pay for one a year roughly, so wouldn't want to knock someone else out of going by doing workstudy.
    "Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Doesn't Work Hard" - Tim Notke
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    #24
    Been a while since I cringed that hard. Nonetheless, to the rest, good information!
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