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  1. Senior Member
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheProf View Post

    The way I see it, if I am certified in something from 5 years ago, I am pretty certain that in IT, everything that I studied for 5 years ago, might not be relevant today, so why would I say I have the knowledge of a VCP3 when the technology today is almost completely different? The way I see it, no need to redo the same exam every two years, just do the new version, learn new things and automatically re-certify yourself by passing the new exam.
    That is where I disagree with you. VCP3 is based of version 3.x of the product. It doesn't matter if it's been 5 months or 5 years, I can guarantee that there aren't going to be many changes within that version.
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    #27
    Scott i agree with you, i didn't mean to say the class was a bad idea. It weeds out a ton of test dumpers that would normally have 15 certifications on their resume. I think the price point is so high though a lot of very well qualified individuals cannot be certified because they simply cannot afford a 2k course and their employer won't pay for it.

    I'm fortunate and my employer paid for me. I feel the quality of the course was good as well but the level of knowledge gained in the course is not enough to pass the exam - so why have the course? The cost of the course is also an entrance barrier for a lot of people that cannot shell out that much money for something they might be able to get a tax deduction from.

    I agree, i'm glad they are fixing the issue of having to have your test validated. Did it take long? No mine took like 24 hours but it's another step in a pretty convoluted process IMO.

    I'm updating my email account now - i didn't realize you could actually change it from your profile page on mylearn.vmware
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  4. VMware Dude! TheProf's Avatar
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by markulous View Post
    That is where I disagree with you. VCP3 is based of version 3.x of the product. It doesn't matter if it's been 5 months or 5 years, I can guarantee that there aren't going to be many changes within that version.
    I think it's a gray area to be honest. When I look at re-certification, I look at "updating" my skillset, which means doing a certification related to today's tech. For example, if I pass VCP6-DCV today, I will have until April 5, 2018 to re-certify. Would I still do the VCP6-DCV exam in 2018? Definitely not, I will do VCP7 or VCP8, whatever it is at that time to "refresh" my skillset.

    Again, it really depends on how you look at things and this is where the debate comes into play because everyone has a different idea of what re-certifications means. At the end of the day, I look at how I can better myself, and studying for new tech instead of old, makes me more valuable. So for me, the re-certification policy does not really matter because I know that I need to update my skillset.
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
    I think it's a gray area to be honest. When I look at re-certification, I look at "updating" my skillset, which means doing a certification related to today's tech. For example, if I pass VCP6-DCV today, I will have until April 5, 2018 to re-certify. Would I still do the VCP6-DCV exam in 2018? Definitely not, I will do VCP7 or VCP8, whatever it is at that time to "refresh" my skillset.

    Again, it really depends on how you look at things and this is where the debate comes into play because everyone has a different idea of what re-certifications means. At the end of the day, I look at how I can better myself, and studying for new tech instead of old, makes me more valuable. So for me, the re-certification policy does not really matter because I know that I need to update my skillset.
    Sorry, but no one outside of greedy IT companies like Cisco and VMware do anything like this. Doctors literally save lives, and have WAY more new information to learn over the years than going from ESXi 5.x to 6.x. Don't you think if this line of logic held any form of water, it would be used outside of Cisco and VMware, such as making doctors retake their board exams every few years? Do you know what Advanced Persistent Threats are? You know how hard those are to keep up with? Don't you think that if this line of logic weren't just a scummy money grab that Offensive Security would make OSCPs re-certify every time a new distro of Kali comes out? Why cant you just admit the obvious, what this really is...

    Edit: you also ignore the fact that you dont even need to take a newer version of an exam to re-certify on old tech. I had my VCP 4 and 5 for several years, all I needed to do was take a View (or others) exam to re-certify those, didnt have to take my 6.x exam to re-certify my older exams. How exactly does that "keep you updated on the latest tech" as you like to say?
    Last edited by jfitzg; 04-05-2016 at 11:12 PM.
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  6. VMware Dude! TheProf's Avatar
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jfitzg View Post
    Sorry, but no one outside of greedy IT companies like Cisco and VMware do anything like this. Doctors literally save lives, and have WAY more new information to learn over the years than going from ESXi 5.x to 6.x. Don't you think if this line of logic held any form of water, it would be used outside of Cisco and VMware, such as making doctors retake their board exams every few years? Do you know what Advanced Persistent Threats are? You know how hard those are to keep up with? Don't you think that if this line of logic weren't just a scummy money grab that Offensive Security would make OSCPs re-certify every time a new distro of Kali comes out? Why cant you just admit the obvious, what this really is...

    Edit: you also ignore the fact that you dont even need to take a newer version of an exam to re-certify on old tech. I had my VCP 4 and 5 for several years, all I needed to do was take a View (or others) exam to re-certify those, didnt have to take my 6.x exam to re-certify my older exams. How exactly does that "keep you updated on the latest tech" as you like to say?
    Look, I get that investing in some vendor certs might cost more by requiring courses and re-certifications every couple of years, heck even VMware certs are expensive, I'll admit it, VCAPs $400USD? Really? But at the end of the day it's a business, businesses are here to make money. No one is saying that VMware and Cisco's policy for re-certification is the way to go, but it is what it is for now. Maybe if more of us spoke out, it would change, who knows.

    I also completely understand the fact that it's not exactly a great feeling to having spent time and money on expensive VMware exams for it to then expire after 2 years if not renewed.

    The point I was trying to make is that I personally don't see a re-certification policy as a bad thing because I try and stay up do date through doing certifications that are more recent which in turn renews the older certification, or like you said, take an exam from a different track and have it renew the others.
    Last edited by TheProf; 04-06-2016 at 12:38 AM.
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  7. Senior Member joelsfood's Avatar
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    #31
    Doctor's boards do have recertification exams, as well as continuing education requirements (MOC)
    https://www.abim.org/maintenance-of-...xam-dates.aspx
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jfitzg View Post
    Because its a money grab from VMware. First off, the fact that you need to re-test is pathetic. I have MANY certifications, most of which expire. The number that require a re-test to recertify is nill for me, they require CPEs. Lets look at other professions, do doctors have to re-take their boards? No. Do Lawyers have to re-take the bar? No. Why? Because these arent run by greedy scum sucking companies like VMware. On top of that, if they really cared about people keeping "up to date" with their skills (their pathetic BS excuse for doing this), they would require that you take the test on the SAME product to re-certify. Instead, I can pass my View exam and that will re-certify my VCP, WTF? Im patiently waiting for the day that the next big thing in virtualization technology comes along and puts VMware out of business, it will probably be a while, but hopefully it will happen and we can rid the wold of the joke called VMware.
    OMG, AMEN TO THIS! I really hope another virtualization platform and makes vmware irrelevant sometime in the foreseeable future, that company needs to go away now.
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    #33
    For people saying VMware needs to go away, let's not confuse their products with their certifications. From a support point of view, I thought View and ESXi/vCenter were solid products.
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  10. Senior Member scott28tt's Avatar
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DPG View Post
    Which vendors have meaningless and unrecognized certifications?
    Never heard of the phrase "Paper MCSE" then??
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  11. Senior Member scott28tt's Avatar
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ande0255 View Post
    OMG, AMEN TO THIS! I really hope another virtualization platform and makes vmware irrelevant sometime in the foreseeable future, that company needs to go away now.
    Aww, how sweet.
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  12. Virtually Certifiable tbgree00's Avatar
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ande0255 View Post
    OMG, AMEN TO THIS! I really hope another virtualization platform and makes vmware irrelevant sometime in the foreseeable future, that company needs to go away now.
    So you want VMware to "go away" because they want their certification candidates to continue to learn about their technologies? Or is it because they put a class barrier that keeps dumpers from getting the test without having exposure? It's funny that someone very active in the Cisco cert environment (per your avatar) would find issues with recertification requirements. I mean taking a CCNA Security test renews your Voice, right? How is that different from taking a Horizon test renewing your VCP5?

    It makes as much sense to me that taking a current Horizon exam would imply you are actively learning their technology as taking a CCNA Datacenter exam would renew the CCNA Security.
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  13. user.Status = "Learning";
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by scott28tt View Post
    Never heard of the phrase "Paper MCSE" then??
    No, but then again I'm probably a whipper snapper to many, so don't be too surprised. I'm not knocking VMware, and I can see that you are well versed in their products and may feel the need to defend your investment and knowledge, so don't take anything I saw as an attack on you personally. As with every certification, there are a lot who may not necessarily deserve it and there are a lot who actually do. I know, as I'm sure we all do, people who are "educated idiots", meaning they have the credentials but beyond the theory they learned in a book (or in a class), they couldn't apply it to save their lives.

    So to an extent, while some certifications may be more recognized than others, any one of them could be meaningless depending on who holds it, VMware included.
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by tbgree00 View Post
    Or is it because they put a class barrier that keeps dumpers from getting the test without having exposure?

    Funny, a couple jobs ago I worked with a number of cloud engineers (VMware backend with VCD front end for customers), all they did was pass around dumps to study for their re-certification (they were re-taking the ESXi 5 exam). Sure shows how effective that class barrier was! /s
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by joelsfood View Post
    Doctor's boards do have recertification exams, as well as continuing education requirements (MOC)
    https://www.abim.org/maintenance-of-...xam-dates.aspx
    I stand corrected, my entire family practices medicine and I never remember anyone taking re-certification exams.
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by markulous View Post
    For people saying VMware needs to go away, let's not confuse their products with their certifications. From a support point of view, I thought View and ESXi/vCenter were solid products.

    Ummmm, Vmware offshores their support, and it is garbage. The only time I ever get a good support person is when I am transferred to the live queue (Ireland the last two times), other than that, it is horrible. My last experience with "support" was fixing a vcenter issue, I told the guy right off the bat what the issue was, and after watching him spend 1.5 hours surfing catalina.out logs, I googled some more and found a VMware KB article with my problem (which had absolutely nowhere near close anything to do with Tomcat). I fixed the problem on my own. VMware support is in a sorry state, but that's what happens when a greedy scum company like VMware cuts corners for higher profits...
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jfitzg View Post
    Funny, a couple jobs ago I worked with a number of cloud engineers (VMware backend with VCD front end for customers), all they did was pass around dumps to study for their re-certification (they were re-taking the ESXi 5 exam). Sure shows how effective that class barrier was! /s
    You're right, people dump their recertification. I can't argue against that and it's sad that you've worked in a place that values cheating that highly. I assume you don't feel the same since you're posting in a certification community that promotes fair testing and learning over dumps. I just know I have worked with Server Engineers with MCSAs/MCSEs that can't add a server to a domain, don't know what Active Directory does, and can't add a static IP to a NIC. I've never run into a VCP that doesn't at least understand the fundamentals of working with vSphere.

    What are you hoping to accomplish? Are you trying to get a rise out of us VMware nerds? I've worked with VMware products for 10 years now and never experienced your experiences with support and your obvious disgust with the company. I value their certifications highly and have invested a lot into knowing them. I'm sorry they have hurt you in such a personal way. I hope whatever company you base your career around has much better support and their certification program is altruistic, not a money grab and is valued highly in the industry.
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  18. California Kid JoJoCal19's Avatar
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by scott28tt View Post
    Never heard of the phrase "Paper MCSE" then??
    VMware's VCP level exams are multiple choice correct, yes? Then there's paper VCP's just the same. And as far as meaningless and unrecognized, maybe when VMware's certs start approaching Microsoft's, Cisco's, or other vendors in the number of job listings asking for them, then you can try to claim that other certs are meaningless and unrecognized.
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    #43
    Ummmm, Vmware offshores their support, and it is garbage. The only time I ever get a good support person is when I am transferred to the live queue (Ireland the last two times), other than that, it is horrible. My last experience with "support" was fixing a vcenter issue, I told the guy right off the bat what the issue was, and after watching him spend 1.5 hours surfing catalina.out logs, I googled some more and found a VMware KB article with my problem (which had absolutely nowhere near close anything to do with Tomcat). I fixed the problem on my own. VMware support is in a sorry state, but that's what happens when a greedy scum company like VMware cuts corners for higher profits...
    I worked support there and they have a huge support center in Colorado. I can tell you the department I worked in was fantastic. So I meant from a point of view from supporting the product.
    Last edited by markulous; 04-06-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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  20. VMware Dude! TheProf's Avatar
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ande0255 View Post
    OMG, AMEN TO THIS! I really hope another virtualization platform and makes vmware irrelevant sometime in the foreseeable future, that company needs to go away now.
    why do you hope for VMware to go away?
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    #45
    They are. Though VMware's support has tanked.
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by scott28tt View Post
    Never heard of the phrase "Paper MCSE" then??
    I've heard paper "insert certification here" for just about all vendors. There are plenty of "paper" CCIE's but that doesn't make Cisco certifications meaningless and unrecognized.

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    #47
    I think it's a bit silly to say you want VMware to go away. You realize it's technically Dell because Dell bought EMC, EMC owns the majority share of VMware.

    Ya Scott paper MCSE, we've interviewed a few people like that as well. Unfortunately unless a company has IT personnel interview candidates HR usually won't know how to weed those people out.
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  24. Self-Described Huguenot blargoe's Avatar
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    #48
    I do agree that the recert requirement is a money grab, and having such a short recert time period is pretty terrible. I had to take 5.x twice to keep my cert active.

    But when you are the market leader and your credentials have such a high demand, you can pretty much enforce whatever $$$$ and quality requirements you want, and people will pay for it. They currently have no disincentive to doing things this way.
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    #49
    Is it just me who thinks that if people don't like it - to just move onto a different vendor and ditch VMware ?
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    #50
    No, I'd have to agree.

    If you don't like the cert requirements, move on. If you find that getting your resume past HR requires you to have teh VCP, then I'd think that it's a small price to renew it every two years. Besides, the renewal itself is a way of requiring CPE, at least in theory, as you're going to have to prepare for the test. Do people cheat? sure. That doesn't mean it should be dropped though.
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