+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 First 12
Results 26 to 47 of 47
  1. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    See my edit, I quoted the wrong text.

    These will cause you problems, not UAC.
    I know what you meant. I'm just saying the few problems we did have were resolved by turning off UAC. I know this way of doing it isn't for everyone, but as long the users have local admin rights and UAC is off then so far (4 months and 300 laptops later) we've had zero issues directly related to the profile renaming.

    Before turning off UAC we'd often have users logged on with a temp profile and I'd have to go into the registry and delete the temp link and remove the .bak from the original link and everything was fine again. Some users also weren't able to install certain software without doing so in "XP mode", but since turning off UAC life has been good.

    Are there any specific problems you know of that you can tell us about?
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  2. SS -->
  3. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    Are there any specific problems you know of that you can tell us about?
    Yes, it causes keys in the registry to reference the wrong account. It has nothing to do with uac.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  4. Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    19
    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    Actually you can't, only some settings are carried over if you use unattend.



    I will have to use gpo to do the following but I only want it applied once per user at their first logon on any machine.

    1. Remove pinned taskbar items but allow user to pin.
    2. Apply company wallpaper but allow user to change it.

    The gpo's that I have found will not allow a user to pin taskbar items or change wallpaper.
    Apologies, I misread what you asked. Thought you wanted to know how to set the first user to login in the unattend after a system has been imaged
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  5. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    Yes, it causes keys in the registry to reference the wrong account. It has nothing to do with uac.
    This is exactly where UAC comes into play. With UAC turned on admins can't access and write to the entire C: drive.

    I create a generic account like WIN7 to update the Default profile. Later on if a program wants to create a folder and looks in the registry and sees it needs to be created in C:\Users\WIN7, then if UAC is on it can't create the folder. But with UAC turned off the program is free to create and use whatever it wants in C:\Users\WIN7.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  6. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    This is exactly where UAC comes into play. With UAC turned on admins can't access and write to the entire C: drive.

    I create a generic account like WIN7 to update the Default profile. Later on if a program wants to create a folder and looks in the registry and sees it needs to be created in C:\Users\WIN7, then if UAC is on it can't create the folder. But with UAC turned off the program is free to create and use whatever it wants in C:\Users\WIN7.
    Its not about controlling what users/admins can or cant do, its about letting the OS do its job correctly. If it needs to create a registry key, it needs to reference the correct account. There is a reason why your method is unsupported.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  7. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    Its not about controlling what users/admins can or cant do, its about letting the OS do its job correctly. If it needs to create a registry key, it needs to reference the correct account. There is a reason why your method is unsupported.
    Go to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\User Account Pictures\Default Pictures on a Windows 7 machine as an admin and try to delete or rename any picture in that folder. You're an admin, and it's not about controlling what admins can or can't do, so you should be able to delete any pictures you want from YOUR hard drive correct?
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  8. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    Go to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\User Account Pictures\Default Pictures on a Windows 7 machine as an admin and try to delete or rename any picture in that folder. You're an admin, and it's not about controlling what admins can or can't do, so you should be able to delete any pictures you want from YOUR hard drive correct?
    [sigh]

    You're missing the point.

    [/sigh]
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  9. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by phoeneous View Post
    [sigh]

    You're missing the point.

    [/sigh]
    Ok ok, I do actually kind of get the point. I know certain registry entries will referance the original profile. The exact same thing would happen in XP when doing it the Microsoft way (which they ditched starting with Vista). My last question is are you speaking from real world experiance or strictly from your studies? I (along with 2 other co-workers) personally support about 1,500 PCs and laptops for a school district. Every single one of them has been imaged and deployed with the default user profile method I described. It's been 4 years since I started doing it that way. So unless I'm totally missing something and the users just aren't saying anything, then there must not be any real problems with doing it this way. I know it's not the Microsoft way but it's way faster and easier than the Microsoft way and it works for me. Sigh.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  10. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #34
    Well first, you can delete those files all you want. As long as you are elevated (which is the whole purpose of UAC).

    Second, one has to wonder that if the method you are using is that easy and has zero side effects, why wouldnt Microsoft endorse it as an official method?

    If something is too good to be true, it usually is.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  11. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper-Me View Post
    Well first, you can delete those files all you want. As long as you are elevated (which is the whole purpose of UAC).

    Second, one has to wonder that if the method you are using is that easy and has zero side effects, why wouldnt Microsoft endorse it as an official method?

    If something is too good to be true, it usually is.
    Did you actually try it?

    I don't care what Microsoft endorses, I know they used to endorse it under Windows XP. This is from Microsoft about their "Official" way of doing it:

    "However this process does have a drawback. It does not propagate all settings to Default User and there is no known documentation as to what will and will not be propagated. It also can be difficult to determine if a setting did not carry over to a new user because it was considered inappropriate (i.e. not copied to Default User by design) or is being reset by Minisetup/Specialize or first logon processes."

    And this is the problems they state will happen with doing it the old way:

    The manual profile copy process can cause issues such as:
    • Their list of most frequently run programs is not cleared
    • Whether the user has been introduced to the Start menu (will be set to TRUE for the source account, but should be FALSE for new users). Windows Explorer does some special things the first time you log on to introduce you to the Start menu and other new features.
    • Whether the user is an administrator (and should therefore see the Administrative Tools, etc).
    • The personalized name for “My Documents” will be incorrect. All users documents folders will be called “Administrator's Documents”. This is documented in the Knowledge Base article “The Desktop.ini File Does Not Work Correctly When You Create a Custom Default Profile” (http://support.microsoft.com/?id=321281).
    • The default download directory for IE will be set to the Administrator's Desktop folder.
    • The default Save and Open locations for some application with point to the Administrator's documents folder.
    • Windows 7 Libraries are broken.
    The first four "problems" are a who cares, the next two are easily corrected after saving a document for the first time. The last one I don't know much abut yet, but our staff don't use there computer for the Windows 7 Libraries, they use them to work. So, I'll take that short list of minor problems over "there is no known documentation as to what will and will not be propagated. It also can be difficult to determine if a setting did not carry over to a new user" any day of the week.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  12. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post

    I don't care what Microsoft endorses,.


    Thats not a very good mindset to work on critical technology with. Bottom line is that its unsupported, it won't show up in certification exams, you will get hung up on if you ever call MS support and start asking about it and the overwhelming likelyhood is that youll end up uncovering a huge issue with it down the road.

    At my last job there was a local OEM that some departments bought computers from. They did some quirky, unsupported things with their images of XP for years. Low and behold when SP3 released it could not be installed. It was causing BSoDs on any machine that had been imaged by them, due to permissions being removed for SYSTEM on certain folders. Not saying this is related to profile copy, but only that if you go and do rougue things, eventually it bites you in the rear.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  13. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper-Me View Post
    At my last job there was a local OEM that some departments bought computers from. They did some quirky, unsupported things with their images of XP for years. Low and behold when SP3 released it could not be installed. It was causing BSoDs on any machine that had been imaged by them, due to permissions being removed for SYSTEM on certain folders. Not saying this is related to profile copy, but only that if you go and do rougue things, eventually it bites you in the rear.
    To each his own I guess. I've never ever called Microsoft tech support, other than having to reactivate a CD Key here or there.

    We had a similer problem with SP3 when it was first released on some machines. Turns out it was a bug in the service pack itself and NOT the machine or load. We had to do some "unsupported" things to get the computers working again after installing Microsofts "supported" update. We just waited a few months for Microsoft to fix their service pack before installing it globallly and everything was fine.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  14. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    To each his own I guess. I've never ever called Microsoft tech support, other than having to reactivate a CD Key here or there.

    We had a similer problem with SP3 when it was first released on some machines. Turns out it was a bug in the service pack itself and NOT the machine or load. We had to do some "unsupported" things to get the computers working again after installing Microsofts "supported" update. We just waited a few months for Microsoft to fix their service pack before installing it globallly and everything was fine.
    I've never called MS support either, but I assume the need may arise someday.

    I never had any problem out of SP3 (aside the aformentioned local OEM).

    I pushed out SP3 on WSUS to a building that I had personally imaged every machine in except a couple of labs of those local OEM boxes, they all hosed and the rest went perfect.

    I mean if its working for you, by all means do it. But so many bugs come from supported MS methods that I truly fear the unsupported
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  15. Senior Member RouteThisWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    509

    Certifications
    A+, Network+, 70-640, VCP4, VCP6-DCV
    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper-Me View Post
    At my last job there was a local OEM that some departments bought computers from. They did some quirky, unsupported things with their images of XP for years. Low and behold when SP3 released it could not be installed. It was causing BSoDs on any machine that had been imaged by them, due to permissions being removed for SYSTEM on certain folders. Not saying this is related to profile copy, but only that if you go and do rougue things, eventually it bites you in the rear.

    does not surprise me one bit.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  16. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by RouteThisWay View Post
    does not surprise me one bit.
    Yeah, you know all too well of the company im talking about.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  17. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper-Me View Post
    I've never called MS support either, but I assume the need may arise someday.

    I never had any problem out of SP3 (aside the aformentioned local OEM).

    I pushed out SP3 on WSUS to a building that I had personally imaged every machine in except a couple of labs of those local OEM boxes, they all hosed and the rest went perfect.

    I mean if its working for you, by all means do it. But so many bugs come from supported MS methods that I truly fear the unsupported
    BTW, that SP3 issue also turned out to be related to OEM builds also. Like OEM builds from small comanies like HP. See here: XP Service Pack 3 Kills AMD Machines

    It was due to them using the same image bor both Intel and AMD based computers.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  18. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    BTW, that SP3 issue also turned out to be related to OEM builds also. Like OEM builds from small comanies like HP. See here: XP Service Pack 3 Kills AMD Machines

    It was due to them using the same image bor both Intel and AMD based computers.
    Oh I know about that SP3 issue, but this one was entirely different. We didn't use any HP models at all. The Dells we used all installed SP3 fine, and the local OEMs that I had reimaged with a clean image made by myself worked fine, but the ones that had been imaged by the local OEM failed miserably.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  19. Senior Member RouteThisWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    509

    Certifications
    A+, Network+, 70-640, VCP4, VCP6-DCV
    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper-Me View Post
    Oh I know about that SP3 issue, but this one was entirely different. We didn't use any HP models at all. The Dells we used all installed SP3 fine, and the local OEMs that I had reimaged with a clean image made by myself worked fine, but the ones that had been imaged by the local OEM failed miserably.
    I can think of 10 diff reasons why, and I can say that confidently
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  20. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    It's been 4 years since I started doing it that way.
    I didn't realize Windows 7 has been out for 4 years...since, you know, that's the OS that we've been talking about this whole time in this thread.

    XP and 7 are two totally different beasts, I'm sure even you know that.

    Do what you want if that's what floats your unsupported boat, I was just trying to be helpful.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  21. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    297

    Certifications
    A+, Network +, MCSE 2003, CCNA:S, VCP 4
    #45
    Hey I was just trying to be helpful too. Sounded like you were wrestling with sysprep so I suggested another method. Good luck in your syprep adventures.

    I'm just curious about something else, when doing it the sysprep way do you have to go through all 15 steps everytime you need to update your image? With my unsupported method, if I need to update an image I just Ghost a computer...make any changes I desire...then re-Ghost the computer back to the server. The reason I've stayed away from sysprep is it just seems like too many steps to go through every single time you want to update an image.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  22. Go ping yourself... phoeneous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Console.WriteLine("Yo");
    Posts
    2,316

    Certifications
    Pimp status
    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    Sounded like you were wrestling with sysprep.
    I was but not anymore

    I'm just curious about something else, when doing it the sysprep way do you have to go through all 15 steps everytime you need to update your image?
    Nope. I took a "common" image while in audit mode which can be applied to any machine provided its the same hardware. I took it with both ImageX and Ghost. This way if one fails I have a backup. Then load the image, make the changes and then image it again. Keep in mind, unless you modify the rearm tag of a sysprepped image, you can only sysprep an image 3 times before the OS gets mad. The only reason why I sysprep is because we use an unattend file, otherwise I'd just use Ghost.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  23. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,056

    Certifications
    Beer+
    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by rwwest7 View Post
    Hey I was just trying to be helpful too. Sounded like you were wrestling with sysprep so I suggested another method. Good luck in your syprep adventures.

    I'm just curious about something else, when doing it the sysprep way do you have to go through all 15 steps everytime you need to update your image? With my unsupported method, if I need to update an image I just Ghost a computer...make any changes I desire...then re-Ghost the computer back to the server. The reason I've stayed away from sysprep is it just seems like too many steps to go through every single time you want to update an image.
    Wait you don't even use sysprep?

    With the deployment tools in Windows Vista and Windows 7, you can add drivers and windows updates offline. In Windows 7 you can even remove drivers and add or remove Windows components, add or remove activation keys, change sysprep answer files, etc etc all offline. You can also boot the image into Audit mode, as phoenueus said, to make online changes without hosing the later sysprep phases.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 First 12

Social Networking & Bookmarks